Racist Threads

[PhilippaGeorgiou]

Wasn't sure where to post this, but I thought AIBU would be ok. I am not running this as a poll, because I don't care about anyones opinions on the matter. And if anyone wants to respond with more racism, don't bother because I won't be engaging for even a second.

Right at the moment this site is not being overrun by racists because MNHQ has determined that there are no racists on the site and it's abuse to tell anyone they are a racist (even when they are). However, there are multiple threads expressing racism every single day, all rehearsing the same old misinformation and bogus narratives. Not one of those posters want to engage - they become abusive and offensive if anyone produces remotely evidenced facts. Their "facts" are the only truthful facts. Everyone else is a "woman hating woke leftist". Which is apparently not abus, according to MNHQ. MNHQ have made is abundantly clear that they will not moderate misinformation, and are blithely happy to allow most abuse to stand.

Here's the thing - there's pretty much nobody on those threads that is genuinely interested in having a discussion or debating information. There is nobody jumping on those threads saying that they don't really understand the different views and positions and would like to know more. Unsurprising, anyone who actually wants to explore the issue, the absolute last place to look to do that would be yet another toxic thread here. Probably the only good thing is that it really is highly unlikely anyone with a real curiousity about the subject would look to form opinions based on the toxic formula of MN.

The only thing that these threads are good for is clicks and ££££'s in the bank for Justine and the site.

So anti-racists - I suggest that we all stop answering these threads altogether. I know it is hard to see the racism stand (although apparently not for the owners of the site or the moderators) unchallenged, but every single challange does nothing but feed the flames and earn money for MN. You all know that the people who are not racists will spend 20% of their posts posting misinformation and 80% posting goady barbs and personal insults, just to keep the threads going. It will be incredibly boring for them if they only have each other to talk to. The threads will die without oxygen. And MN makes no money out of clicks that haven't happened. It's a win all around.

And if you want to do something proactive, instead of engaging with people who aren't going to listen, why not raise your concerns about the racism with the advertisers? They are being associated with it by their presence, and are clearly far more likely to influence the owners of the site than the people posting on it.

But why is race the one characteristic people are “concerned” about with regards to possible criminality ?

Not sex. Not age. Not education level. Not mental health condition. Not socio-economic status or class. Only race. Why that one specific characteristic ?

@HangryLikeTheHulk I mentioned total influx of foreign. In my second post I said about scarcely educated.
Currently there are not boat loads of white Christians on Dover beaches or middle class middle aged women. Insert jokes here!.

And, lo,OP. If you call them, they will come.

Even if it wasn't your intention, it's inevitable.

Thank you @PhilippaGeorgiou

As a non-white, child of two immigrants Mumabetted I’ve been feeling like this isn’t a safe space anymore. You’re right. Let’s not fan the flames. But I hope Mumsnet HQ does something about it soon because the site is rapidly descending into a Nigel Farage fanclub!

Noted, OP.
Thank you. 😊

If you genuinely want to know, maybe start a thread asking why. I have thoughts on this matter, but I won’t write it here—it’s not going to be welcome (I’m American and we’ve been dealing with this issue for … well, a lot longer than you. And ignoring it is not going to go any better for you than it did for us).

To address your last point: on what basis do you believe the "vast majority" of people arriving through illegal means don't qualify as genuine asylum seekers?

Is it because of media reports?

How do you know that these people aren't genuine asylum seekers? Or is it just that you don't believe that anyone, no matter how dire their circumstances are, should be granted asylum if they enter illegally?

Surely the issue is the bottleneck within government for processing asylum seekers? If the process was more efficient, anyone who wasn't genuine would simply be removed promptly once their application was assessed and only the genuine asylum seekers would be left - so problem solved?

If that's the case then the problem is with how slow the application process is, rather than the desperate people trying to get in?

I'm not trying to be confrontational or aggressive - I'm trying to understand what the "other side" believe, and where the information comes from.

Oh, you're the poster who thinks you're a special immigrant because you married a white Englishman.

And are now importing your American race politics here. Lovely.

I think you're right, OP. We may just be fuelling the problem by trying to challenge it. We certainly aren't changing any minds. And the racists are clearly getting their kicks from winding us up.

The frankly peverse decisions sometimes being taken by the MNHQ moderators really don't help. It is increasingly clear that, for all of their words, they aren't really committed to tackling the problem. On one recent thread, their intervention actually made things worse, but they didn't even bother responding when I pointed this out.

It is starting to have a negative impact on my mental health tbh, and I think I need to step away from the site for a while, if not permanently. It's pretty depressing to see the worst of humanity being paraded on a site that was once supposed to be a supportive space for women.

There are still some amazing posters here and I have been very grateful for the opportunities that I've had to learn from the wisdom and insights that people have shared. I have appreciated the solidarity from others who find the current situation as abhorrent as I do. But honestly, I think I'm done.

You’re an American claiming that America has been dealing with migration longer than the UK ?

Just how old is America ?

But it’s not quite the same thing. Lots of the illegal immigrants are men in a particular age bracket who come from cultures that don’t respect women or where cultural practices may not be acceptable here. Councils/“authorities” have held classes telling these men effectively that just because British women don’t dress in a way they think is appropriate it doesn’t mean it’s fair game to harass/assault them. NAF(orgein)MALT, but that is a massive concern for local communities but if they speak about it they’re called far-right bigots. Afghanistan has just decided that women can see five from one eye so they’ve got to wear an eye patch over the other eye. How can people from a culture where that is encouraged do a 180 when they arrive here? Do you think years of conditioning is somehow erased as soon as they’re housed in a hotel?

At the moment, things that are very concerning and should be addressed are being squashed with shouts of “Racist!”.

Mine is the dictionary definition of racism
What’s yours?

So you should understand that these men want to get away from those horrors and find work here to eventually bring their wives and daughters to safety from such oppression.

The irony when this post is so ignorant

We are overcrowded as we are. Let us revise the rules on Claiming Asylum.
Let's change the rules on agreeing to people remaining hers for flimsy reasons.

I agree, this is pretty much the definition of racism.

Why don’t we just ignore and report?

Which rule in particular ?

Before this descends into the inevitable bunfight, I just wanted to say that I'll be sorry to see you go @MrsBennetsPoorNerves.

I've seen your name pop up on a lot of the threads I've either been on or lurking on, and your comments are always fair and balanced.

If you decide to stay, or if you go and then decide to come back, maybe sticking to certain boards might help weed out the worst of the nastiness? I try and avoid AIBU if I'm feeling a little bit fragile. Sometimes I just come and have a poke around the property and decoration boards without looking at everything else because it's much calmer on there.

💐

There's no racists on here in the same way there's no transphobes.

I have a view on this. All these people have already passed through several safe countries before making a trip which actually puts them in danger - the Channel crossing.

If they are fleeing from danger and seeking safety, why do they do this? We know why - their economic prospects are probably better in the UK maybe because of language, connections already established in the UK. So surely that turns them from asylum seekers into economic migrants.

None of these people need to flee France unless we're saying France isn't safe?

Now, I know the law isn't written in this way and that they are perfectly entitled to seek asylum in a safe country of their choosing. But I think people feel that what they're doing is something different to seeking asylum based on what I've said above.

I'm not engaging with the racists on MN anymore. As far as I can see they are only on MN to peddle their racist bollocks and are not worth anyones time or effort.

More seek asylum in eg Iran, Turkey, Germany, France than in the UK.

So does that change the point Im making?

Just FYI the last group that replied to posters with flowers, got complained about to MN and warned.

So maybe not such a good idea.