Is anyone better off since Labour

[Luckymum20]

I am not just talking financially but feeling optimistic about the future for children, old age.

With the £22 billion debt now pasing £50 billion.

The increase in Council tax (that they said the wouldn't do). OAPs raid on pensions and no Winter fuel relief. Changes to finance regarding care homes. Utilities up. TV licence up. Food costs up...

I know minimum wage has increased but all costs have increased by a greater amount!

In 2021 minimum wage was almost 30% lower than it is now...

So I ask. Is anyone actually feeling better off, optimistic and pleased with this Government.

Also the October budget of likely to bring more stains on the 'average working man"

YABU - change will happen. It a good thing.

YANBU - not good

Anyway, back to the thread. 76% have voted YANBU. The majority do not feel better off under Labour.

Ha i was bought up in a Tory household, voted Thatcher & Major a few times but i saw what a mess that was was, ERM, privatisations, Council hose sell offs.

Not got more left wing as such, just that the centre ground has shifted.

eg Thatcher v pro EU, helped shape the Single Market, together with FOM !!

Thatcherites such as Major, Clarke, Heseltine, Grieves & Stewart no longer welcome in todays Conservative party, which is UKIP really.

Starmer imho would have fitted well in the Cameron Govt.

Reform are an expression of the country fed up of not being listened too.... started with immigration but its now progressed to many other areas too.

Labour will need to move on COL, energy, water, council taxes, dentistry, roads, if they don't address these or at least make a start, we will have PM Farage & time is running out.

If so, as much a failure of the once great Tory party as it will be on Labour.

Debate requires an interest and understanding off the subject being debated, a willingness to listen and the ability to actually critically analyse facts and form a coherent response. That requires a certain degree of intelligence.

What often happens is that people interested in politics align themselves with people who think like them socially - and why not, shared values are important. In much of day to day life however most of us exist with people who don’t hold the same views, generally but not exclusively, through work and about whom we often have less choice as to whether to engage or not. So, we learn to listen and either debate or keep quiet based on our perception of their ability/willingness to debate. Which is also fine.

The problem arises if one’s entire life is spent with people who hold the same views, and taking a very broad brush approach that’s often the case with those employed by the public sector…because those that go into the public sector often, but not always, do so because they think that their way of doing things will make a difference. It becomes self fulfilling at that point.

Thats what leads to group think, and being unused to engaging with people with different views. And because they’re not used to engaging with people who have different views, and often don’t have the skills to debate anyway, it degenerates into personal attacks or ever more extreme statements. Hence anyone who’s not ‘left’ is hard right, even though most people are either centre left or centre right. That can seem like bullying to those on the receiving end end, because often it is. It wouldn’t be tolerated in any school, work or non public sector professional environment.

Which is where the ‘echo chamber’ trope comes from of course. This is all big picture, helicopter view of how I see it working of course, and just my opinion. But I think it’s broadly true. I blame their eduction ;)

Hardly surprising as putting right 14 years of Tory under funding and chaos is going to take years, will cost, we’re still only months in and we’re just starting to feel Brexit bite.

We agree on some of that 😊

I was actually going to ask about that as it makes no sense!

Sorry, but we can't have that!!

Time to do some work now!

🤣

@MischiefandMayhemManaged That is a huge jump but there are some parts of the country - like my deprived region - that have paid that amount for around a decade. I’m guessing it’s because we always had a high burden or social care and welfare that needed to be paid for so we’re not feeling the pinch as much as other areas where there never used to be this burden.

I agree with nearly everything you’re saying, but your reference to not left = hard right makes me wonder if you’re implying everyone in the public sector is broadly left. In my experience it’s the opposite - broadly right, very conservative and, yes, limited experience of people not like themselves. It’s not that everyone is privileged or wealthy, though plenty are, but there is a belief that there’s one way to do things and that, by working in the civil service, they are automatically serving the nation.

Like I say, I don’t know anything about the policy. I don’t know if it’s increasing foreign aid to Afghanistan by £2 or sending £6 billion worth RPGs to the taliban. I just know Labour supporters generally get hysterical about anything to do with reducing immigration, so I just ignore it.

Education tax is disgusting and unacceptable, reversing it is one of my top voting priorities.

LOL @ class warfare

Its like that Japanese soldier who carried on fighting world war 2 for 20 years after it ended

Wasn’t me who introduced the phrase to the thread .

How much has Labour raised to date from the PS VAT raid?

And hows it going with the recruitment of the promised 6,500 state school teachers?

Please advise.

I haven't heard 'class warfare' since the days of the Tooting National Front!

It's been pointed out before, remove private education and those who can afford to live in the catchment of the best schools will do just that. No one in my family has been to private school at least not since my cousin got a scholarship.to Gordonstoun in the 1950s. My auntie, his mum, was a cleaner.

Everything takes time. Still waiting for the promised vast sums of cash going to the NHS from Brexit …..

Nick Ferrari, omg he is the way and the light, so profound...

I know, right.

Thing is - of ALL the things I have posted this morning, you pick on that one, funnily.

Please comment on the others.

Not true.

You should correct that it isn't just "adverse media" it is all media.

Deflection.

Which bit isn’t true? The reference to Citizen Smith? My aunt being a cleaner, or my cousin’s scholarship?

And those with choices around education will use them. We could never have afforded private school, but we put our efforts into moving to an area with a great primary school. Just as lots of other ordinary working families did, and still do.

The bit about moving to catchments. There are measures that can be taken to counteract that, whether they are popular is another thing though as many just like to be angry about everything - not meaning you when I state that, just more in general, sadly lots of anger about at the moment.

Unless your very old i don’t think so. Labour very unlikely to get a second term, apart from a few many of people who voted won’t do again. They have been awful, the back peddling already, bring in a policy and own it at least. The benefits need an overhaul, and pip and illegal boat crossings all need properly addressing, it may not be popular but thats the shit you have to deal with when in power and not just on the sidelines. Get those things right and the savings etc will show this term and could see them stay, bury your head in the sand and be careful what you wish for , if not a tory government next and not labour , then doesn’t leave many else

But thats not reading fully they never said it will go to the nhs , they said money saved could be used for x, y, z all clever use of words by every politician, they are all pretty crap at the moment. If there was a decent opposition party none if them would get in. The vote turnout was low and majority low as people are fed up with all the false promises. Manifestos need to be legally binding, then maybe we will have more trust in a political party