To ask if you'll be attending the anti fascism protest on 13 September

[Whatafustercluck]

I'd like to go in solidarity with like minded people, but worry about it turning violent. I won't be taking my children and will likely be going alone. Lots of people I know detest Tommy Robinson but will stay away due to the likelihood of trouble, but I really want to help send a message that racism and hatred won't win. Is anyone here considering going, or decided to stay away?

I wondered why everyone who is concerned about the levels of immigration are labelled racists. Pretty lazy to label everyone as racist when there are a multitude of concerns including lack.of housing, services and affordability etc.

It’s usually either an attempt to shut them up, by making them afraid to be lumped in with the actual far right, or to dismiss them without having to think too hard about their opinion.

@allusernamesaretakennow @DreamyBalonz Because refugees are a drop in the ocean compared to what’s really broken. Councils are on the brink of bankruptcy from long-term deficits, schools and hospitals face a £49bn maintenance backlog, and over 100,000 people are already in temporary accommodation. Around 109,000 asylum claims last year is tiny against that backdrop. The real issue is years of austerity and underfunding
Blaming refugees just lets the grifters in power off the hook.

You compared Gammon and Karen to racial slurs.

They are slurs very specific to the persons skin colour. You can’t get much more racial slur than that. But do carry on arguing that it’s ok to be racist sometimes.

Your insistence on bringing in the behaviour aspect is a red herring as it is subjective.

The definition doesn’t make any mention of behaviour. That’s been added to justify use if the term.

Gammon is a pejorative term popularised in British political culture since the 2010s. The term refers to the colour of a white person's flushed face, which purportedly resembles the type of pork of the same name.

I agree that many aspects of our country are terrible.

I can categorically say that spending between £5-8 million PER DAY indefinitely on hotels for asylum seekers is not going to help. We have spent £5 billion in the last two years - just on hotels. It’s not just the individuals who gain the right to remain but then also families have the right to join them. In some area the cost is further bumped up by local provision of private healthcare directly into the hotels (yes, I’ve seen it in the local news). Not to mention the additional costs of court cases and lawyers.

We have every right to hold the government to account on this and every other area of failure.

From the BBC website:
The Home Office's annual accounts, external show £2.1bn was spent on hotel accommodation - an average of about £5.77m per day, down from £3bn or £8.3m per day, the previous year.

No. Karen is a stupid thing referring to a moany woman (behaviour) gammon is a racist term referring to white ppls skin - it goes red/pink when angry/hot/embarrassed/drunk!! Its a rude insulting comment referring specifically to the skin colour of white people. It IS racist.

You’re missing the point. Gammon and Karen are used because of behaviour patterns — the flushed rage, the entitled outbursts — not just skin colour. If someone never behaves that way, they don’t get called it. That’s the difference. Racial slurs need nothing but existing in the “wrong” skin. Pretending those are the same is just sloppy.

It is behaviour based though. It refers very specifically to an angry, overweight and bald, middle aged, white man who hasn’t got two brain cells to rub together frothing at the mouth over immigration and wanting the country back, and spewing racist bullshit propaganda he has seen on social media whilst going red in the face from the high blood pressure.

It’s a very specific type of person and their behaviour that accompanies it. You know this, stop pretending otherwise to try and make out it’s equal to plain old racism. it isn’t at all.

If they don’t want the retaliation, they shouldn’t act like morons. They are laughing stocks. They can dish it but as soon as they get it back they start crying like man babies because they’re too emotionally fragile with victim mentalities, which is the whole reason they’re protesting in the first place 😂😂😂

Yes, i agree, and the figure you gave me was smaller than the actulal, so i'm not defending that. actually, asylum hotels cost around £2.1bn last year. But put that beside other spending that rarely gets the same outrage

Working-age welfare (non-disability, non-pension) around £141bn a year, covering things like Universal Credit, housing benefit. That’s over 60 times the hotel bill.

MP expenses — the average MP costs taxpayers about £200k each per year, with some clocking over £1m in claims over a few years. Even pet rent has been billed to the taxpayer.

Government waste e.g. billions lost in fraudulent COVID loans and dodgy PPE contracts, money that will never be clawed back. The Public Accounts Committee estimated £21bn lost to fraud and error on covid.

Asylum hotels aren’t bankrupting Britain — waste, grift, and political choices are.

Tell me, if three white men are walking along as part of a peaceful protest against illegal immigration, is it acceptable to call them gammons? These men are not chanting or frothing just walking and supporting a cause they believe in. Are you saying because of that behaviour it is acceptable?

Just because you add laughing emojis at the end of your rant it doesn't make it funny.

I think you’re fully aware that I don’t consider it acceptable. But let’s be clear: refugees are not illegal. Under international law, people have the right to claim asylum wherever they arrive, regardless of how they got there. The UK hasn’t provided safe legal routes for most nationalities — so calling them “illegal” is not only misleading, it’s dishonest.
So if those same men were marching while shouting about “illegal immigrants stealing from the British,” some people might understandably see that as ill-informed behaviour that earns them the label.
If you don’t want the label, don’t play the part.

It’s true though isn’t it? It’s always the same types of thuggish chavs at these protests, not a qualification between them. Always life’s victims wanting to feel like they’re relevant. Punching down on others. What a sad state of affairs. Makes me bloody ashamed of this country.

It’s fine to have concerns, but go about asking those questions in the right way. That’s why I know what’s going on now has absolutely nothing to do with concern. You can call it that but that’s not what it is. You need to be asking respectful questions and actually listening to the answers, not stood outside hotels chanting and painting roundabouts with wonky lines to intimidate people.

No I dont know this!! Making a comment about someone's skin colour in a derogatory manner is racist- red because of high blood pressure? Also you do get angry black men you know? Would you call them gammons? My point is that its ONLY white ppl that go pink/red (like a gammon joint) and a gammon joint is obviously an insulting thing to be compared to!

I agree with some points and perhaps also the marches through London with the Palestinian flags and some shouting anti semitic slogans or showing clear support for terrorism could also protest in a more respectful grown up way asking respectful questions? Maybe, not stopping people from visiting mcdonalds and parading through Jewish areas in London causing fear for people not involved in the war. Many groups of protesters protesting different things have genuine and extremists included together.

You're right asylum seekers awaiting their claims to be processed are not illegal Immigrants but there are also estimated to be hundreds of thousands of unauthorised migrants un the UK having arrived here by various channels. People have a right to protest against the way continued governments have got us to the position we are in.

Unauthorised migration in the UK - Migration Observatory - The Migration Observatory https://share.google/Y1vrQA53GGg4bTaV5

The people you are describing are a minority, they dont represent the people on mumsnet and the masses that are against illegal/too much legal immigration.

Yes, I accept your point, there are people in the UK without authorisation. But let’s be honest: those are not the ones being protested against. The people housed in hotels are tracked, processed, and accounted for. The so-called “illegal immigrants disappearing into society” are the very ones there is no reliable data on, so they’re not the ones filling up the front pages or the chants on protest marches.

#operationletthemspeak Just keep talking and proving the point...

They’re not a minority at all, they might be a minority of the country, but they definitely are over represented at these protests. They are an embarrassment. There’s a reason that 41% of those arrested at last summers riots had previous convictions for DV. They say they care about women and girls. It’s a smoke screen. They are losers with fragile egos, and their female equivalents.

Like I said, if you have genuine concerns about asylum seekers, ask the right questions of the right people. Stop spewing hatred and nonsense because you’re being manipulated and fed lies. Write to your MP.

I dont spew any hatred or nonsense thankyou very much! And my local MP is a liberal democratic so that would be a fruitless activity.

If you genuinely believe you’re not spewing hatred or nonsense, then great — but that also means Teanbiscuits’ point shouldn’t have rattled you so much. Writing to your MP isn’t “fruitless” just because they’re a Lib Dem — MPs of every party are there to represent constituents. If the concern is real, you take it to them. If the instinct instead is to dismiss democratic channels and show up to shout outside hotels at vulnerable people, then maybe the issue isn’t with the MP — it’s with the choice of target.

You do repost misinformation, I could swear I’ve seen you on other threads. Mind you, I can’t be sure unless I go and look and I can’t be bothered really. Enjoy your protest anyway.

I'm not having a problem with that at all.

If you would like to expand on that please do.

I haven't compared them to racist terms.

I have said that they are racist terms.

I am not collapsing everything into racism.

Racism clearly exists. why do you wish to make it nuanced?