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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask if you'll be attending the anti fascism protest on 13 September

1000 replies

Whatafustercluck · 26/08/2025 18:44

I'd like to go in solidarity with like minded people, but worry about it turning violent. I won't be taking my children and will likely be going alone. Lots of people I know detest Tommy Robinson but will stay away due to the likelihood of trouble, but I really want to help send a message that racism and hatred won't win. Is anyone here considering going, or decided to stay away?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
28
Somerford · 29/08/2025 13:33

FrippEnos · 29/08/2025 13:27

You may want to look at were generally the christian extremists live.
And then look at the phrase Domestic terrorism.

I'm not doing any of that. If you want to make an argument then go ahead and make it, don't give me home work assignments

Somerford · 29/08/2025 13:35

BIossomtoes · 29/08/2025 13:27

Because Christian extremism doesn’t really exist? The two faiths are remarkably similar.

If Christian extremism barely exists and Islamic extremism exists on such a scale that a small percentage of our population is causing such a big problem for our counter terrorism services, there must be a reason for the disparity. I'd suggest it lies in the difference between the religions

FrippEnos · 29/08/2025 13:36

Somerford · 29/08/2025 13:33

I'm not doing any of that. If you want to make an argument then go ahead and make it, don't give me home work assignments

OK.

Don't look at the extremist Christians in America.
Don't look at how they are being looked at for domestic terrorism.
and especially (an addition) don't look at how similar their beliefs are to extremist Islamic beliefs.

Somerford · 29/08/2025 13:38

If Christian extremism barely exists and Islamic extremism exists on such a scale that a small percentage of our population is causing such a big problem for our counter terrorism services, there must be a reason for the disparity. Whether its key differences between the religions or cultural factors doesn’t really matter I'd suggest, it doesn't change the outcomes.

FrippEnos · 29/08/2025 13:41

Somerford · 29/08/2025 13:38

If Christian extremism barely exists and Islamic extremism exists on such a scale that a small percentage of our population is causing such a big problem for our counter terrorism services, there must be a reason for the disparity. Whether its key differences between the religions or cultural factors doesn’t really matter I'd suggest, it doesn't change the outcomes.

From what I can see christian extremism is past the stage where is was out going to other countries. It now seems to be much more on a domestic level.

Somerford · 29/08/2025 13:41

FrippEnos · 29/08/2025 13:36

OK.

Don't look at the extremist Christians in America.
Don't look at how they are being looked at for domestic terrorism.
and especially (an addition) don't look at how similar their beliefs are to extremist Islamic beliefs.

Ok i won't. But if someone said "Americans from Delaware (for example) pose a tightened risk of domestic terrorism, we should have strict policies around letting them into the country" I'd say absolutely fair enough if the evidence supports the claim.

FrippEnos · 29/08/2025 13:43

Most of the American cults seem to be based on extreme christian values. As do many of the American school shooters.
Although that trend appears to be altering. but the shooters still remain on the fringes of the society where they live.

GoodPudding · 29/08/2025 13:45

BIossomtoes · 29/08/2025 13:14

That’s odd because it’s got a fuck of a lot in common with Christianity.

Christianity had a Reformation, after which Christian societies softened through the Enlightenment in the following centuries.

Islamic societies have had no such transition. I’d be saying the same about Christian societies if we still burnt people at the stake for heresy, but we don’t.

Try burning a Bible in public and see what happens (nothing would!)… And then try burning a Koran.

www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpdx2wqpg7zo.amp

Or draw a cartoon mocking Jesus… and then do the same with Muhammad.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo_shooting

Or compare mocking Christianity in the UK (the cast of Life of Brian is alive and well!) to mocking Islam in Pakistan

apnews.com/article/pakistan-blasphemy-death-sentence-a3b46de9922fd63046cf0857a5a2f86f

In 21st century, the two are not equivalent… not remotely so. It’s preposterous to claim otherwise. And I say this without being a practicing Christian so have no axe to grind!

WhereIsMyJumper · 29/08/2025 13:49

FrippEnos · 29/08/2025 13:36

OK.

Don't look at the extremist Christians in America.
Don't look at how they are being looked at for domestic terrorism.
and especially (an addition) don't look at how similar their beliefs are to extremist Islamic beliefs.

What have Christian extremists in America got to do with MI5? Are there any Christian extremists in the UK? Are they keeping MI5 as busy as Islamic extremists?

WhereIsMyJumper · 29/08/2025 13:57

BurlyShriggs · 29/08/2025 07:50

Watch TR’s address to the Oxford Union and scour for examples of ‘racism’. I too was repulsed by TR, until persuaded by non white friends to watch it and look at what he has actually said and done. He is anti Islam, not anti Muslim. Islam is a belief system not a race.

I’m glad you have said this. I suspect it will fall on deaf ears, though.
I used to hate him and assumed he was a racist thug until someone I knew (who is white, but is very intelligent and open-minded) suggested I watch the Oxford Union address. I wanted to watch it originally so I could pick it apart and prove to my friend that he is a racist thug, but I couldn’t.
People don’t like to have their beliefs challenged, it scares them so I don’t think anyone on here will watch it. I personally prefer to keep an open mind and actually listen to the person’s own words rather than going along with what the crowd thinks

Somerford · 29/08/2025 14:18

FrippEnos · 29/08/2025 13:41

From what I can see christian extremism is past the stage where is was out going to other countries. It now seems to be much more on a domestic level.

Ok, well its not something we have to worry about then is it? Let the US handle it as they see fit.

MushMonster · 29/08/2025 15:36

Somerford · 29/08/2025 13:23

Then why do you suppose Islamic Extremism makes up three quarters of MI5's counter terrorism case load and Christian Extremism doesn't

You have answered your own question.
It is the extremism, Islamism, that is the problem, not the religion of Islam itself.
One of the groups more negatively affected by Islamism are precisely Muslims. See, for example, Afghanistan.
Christianity had its burning people phase a while back. Not so long ago, the abuse under cover during the war, post-war (they actually removed new borns from loving parents or single mothers that they thought unworthy) and the children abuse.
For me the root of the problem is clear. Political self serving extremes that hide behind respected institutions, those be religions, police, political parties.... Religion is a big one. Used through history to divide. When religion itself is about living together in harmony.
But extremes are easy to spot. Why we are falling down the rabbit hole? If we can see it plain and clear.

ToeKneeBeee · 29/08/2025 19:12

mumofoneAloneandwell · 26/08/2025 20:18

Amazing of you to go, things are getting so bad, especially with these flags everywhere

The bbc are reporting on farage's 'sending illegal migrants home' plan as though its a possibility he will be in power!!! Terrifying x

These flags? Do you mean the Union Jack and the Saint George's Cross? The last time I checked this was Great Britain so I really don't see what the issue is. Where I'm from in East London there is a large Bangladeshi community and they fly their national flag, I used to live in New Zealand and they are a very proud nation who also happen to fly their flag, as do the many American households, and the list goes on.

I do not condone racism, fascism or antisemitism in any way shape or form, but I am proud of where I'm from but somehow that's perceived as being racist.

I don't know, your comment about 'all these flags' strikes me as bizarre, you're speaking as though patriotism is a crime.

ToeKneeBeee · 29/08/2025 19:18

Jumpingthruhoops · 26/08/2025 23:02

Why can't those who support open borders simply take in one of the hotel residents themselves? Surely that would solve the problem overnight?

Exactly.

mumofoneAloneandwell · 29/08/2025 19:29

ToeKneeBeee · 29/08/2025 19:12

These flags? Do you mean the Union Jack and the Saint George's Cross? The last time I checked this was Great Britain so I really don't see what the issue is. Where I'm from in East London there is a large Bangladeshi community and they fly their national flag, I used to live in New Zealand and they are a very proud nation who also happen to fly their flag, as do the many American households, and the list goes on.

I do not condone racism, fascism or antisemitism in any way shape or form, but I am proud of where I'm from but somehow that's perceived as being racist.

I don't know, your comment about 'all these flags' strikes me as bizarre, you're speaking as though patriotism is a crime.

Awkward Erm GIF by Dyo

..

Bannon1985 · 29/08/2025 19:47

Most of those protesting are not racist
They are concerned parents and citizens worried about unvetted potentially dangerous illegal migrants roaming our streets and the loss of communities up and down the country through a large influx of illegal migrants.
They are passing through lots of safe countries on the way to Britain.why do they need to come here.

BIossomtoes · 29/08/2025 20:02

Bannon1985 · 29/08/2025 19:47

Most of those protesting are not racist
They are concerned parents and citizens worried about unvetted potentially dangerous illegal migrants roaming our streets and the loss of communities up and down the country through a large influx of illegal migrants.
They are passing through lots of safe countries on the way to Britain.why do they need to come here.

If you believe that you’ll believe anything.

Noodledog · 29/08/2025 20:08

WhereIsMyJumper · 29/08/2025 13:29

Some much needed context here.
The left are having to do an awful lot of mental acrobatics to support what is in practice, a very right wing ideology.
Reminds me of when people were supporting Iran’s right to have a nuclear weapon because they hate Trump so much when Trump is actually left-wing compare to the Ayatollah.

I don’t like Trump, but I’d rather live in the US than Iran!

The levels of cognitive dissonance the current "progressive" left manage to cope with are fascinating and definitely worthy of research. Mainstream left wing thought has been engulfed by identity politics and it produces some very odd results. I saw a hilarious youtube clip of a man at Brighton pride being abusive to someone making "gender critical" arguments, while very obviously agreeing with them.

llizzie · 30/08/2025 02:00

FrippEnos · 29/08/2025 13:41

From what I can see christian extremism is past the stage where is was out going to other countries. It now seems to be much more on a domestic level.

I wish someone would explain what they mean by ''Christian EXtremism''.

llizzie · 30/08/2025 02:08

Bannon1985 · 29/08/2025 19:47

Most of those protesting are not racist
They are concerned parents and citizens worried about unvetted potentially dangerous illegal migrants roaming our streets and the loss of communities up and down the country through a large influx of illegal migrants.
They are passing through lots of safe countries on the way to Britain.why do they need to come here.

This is why parents are so concerned that their girls are being approached. The court case this week heard from girls who were approached by illegal migrants from the local hotel to ''make a baby with them''. They come from countries which have no minimum age for marriage. They are poorly educated and do not realise that our laws are stricter, and that they are not in charge of women. Equality of sexes is unheard of in many countries, mostly in the MIddle East and Africa. Bear in mind too, that they are largely of maritable age, and many come with marriage in mind to stay in Britain

" There is no single minimum age for marriage for Muslim girls, as it is determined by each country's specific laws, which vary widely, with some countries setting the age at 18 and others allowing marriage at puberty or younger with exceptions. While some interpretations of Islamic law do not fix a minimum age, and the age of puberty is sometimes considered sufficient for marriage, many Muslims and organizations advocate for setting the age at 18 to align with human rights standards and the welfare of children. "

We should give refugees a chance to learn our culture, and that is best done in specially provided units.

llizzie · 30/08/2025 02:58

IneedAniffler · 29/08/2025 10:59

Actually, glassmat, if you look properly, I have countered llizzie's posts with facts, explained extensively, and she has now begun to come round in the face of real solid information. It was you that I was saying it's batshit to, not llizzie.

People like you, who agree with misinformation and applaud those posting absolute nonsense, are a bigger part of the problem than those who call it out.

Go back and check.

I most certainly have not come around to anything you say. I have not posted much because I have had a very slow leak from the upstairs bathroom which has flooded the MDF filler in the kitchen units and buckled the ceilings. The floors upstairs are saturated. I live in a disabled living extension and had no idea that there had been a slow leak for so long. The results of tests came back on Thursday showing the ceilings are an asbestos sandwich and have to be dealt with by experts. I shall need a new kitchen and bathroom, and am told the work will take a long time. I pointed out that my sight is going and could they be faster so I can see it?

That is another point. You won't have to put up with me that long once I cannot see to type. I can type fast still, thanks to the surgeon who operated on them. Being disabled and housebound doesn't make me ignorant, and I get lots of first hand info from the immigrant carers who are so kind. They are brought up in places - particularly Africa - where family care is automatic.

Enough of me.

You quote from dictionary descriptions, and quote what was meant by fascism over 100 years ago. Look at the social history of that time. By the end of the Great War, Russia had become a communist nation. The leaders killed the royal family and whoever of the nobility they could find. They wanted equality for all. Large palaces and mansions were taken over and given to the poor. Problem was that there were more poor than they had considered, and these palaces were too few for the population, and whole families had just one room.

In 1919 when you say fascism was first recorded, more people died of influenza than were killed in the Great War. People were poor. There was a general strike, the stock market crash. It was easy for Mussolini and Hitler to convince the people that it was foreigners who were causing the problems, because people had no radio or TV in those days, and very few had electricity, phones, indoor plumbing, outside lav if they were lucky.

You cannot use words over a century old to describe people you do not agree with.

There were no longer any rich, in Russia, other than the likes of Marx and Lenin et al. They did not use their wealth to run factories and give jobs to people, so there was no fuel, no food, extreme deprivation and starvation, because, just like Starmer et al, they thought the rich could be tapped to make everyone equal.

We see now that the government is increasing making everyone equal by taxation. First NI employer contributions, then farmer IHT, then taxes on property, increases on food prices is crippling us, and the food has gone up because there are not a lot of wealthy people. They are the ones who produce our industrial goods, our food, and almost everything we rely on, and transport costs and other costs has put up the price of foods.

No use saying we can import more food either, because that makes Britain dependent on other countries in times of trouble, and because the Houthis are bombing ships in the Red Sea, any food and goods we trade with the southern hemisphere has to be shipped the long way round, adding more to the cost.

Immigrants cost the taxpayer £5 million A DAY. That is what is pushing up the prices. The government is paying landlords and hotels a premium to put up the migrants. That means evictions of families. One of my family members has rented the same house for 24 years and has been told by the landlord to vacate.

There are others, single mothers, being evicted, because the landlord gets more money if the house is turned into an HMO.

The government one their case to keep migrants in the Bell Hotel. They were joined by the owner of the hotel, who stood to lose money.

Even so, why are so many people here and elsewhere saying ''bring them in, let them stay, find them houses, feed them, give them health care'' and so on, when the PM keeps repeating that they are trying to stop them coming? He has vowed to stop the boats, vowed to stop the gangs, paid Macron billions to contain them in France, trying to find an alternative to Rwanda.

Yet still, everyone who wants them gone and is campaigning is called a fascist by left wing extremism who seem to think that Britain is bigger than it really is.

Have you and your friends actually compared the size of our little island to the rest of Europe, and the places where the migrants come from?

What about Lammy giving 11 billion to the new Syrian government. Was he hoping he could send all the Syrian refugees and migrants back to Syria? Fat chance that, now that it seems ISIS is there.

You can give me dictionary meanings, quote dates, times and people all you want. The situation now has never been experienced before. You get all that info from Ai. Try asking google to name people who are fascist today, and you will get the answer ''Ai have not prepared that information'', or words to that effect.

llizzie · 30/08/2025 03:08

BurlyShriggs · 29/08/2025 11:10

I don’t think he’s commented but I’m guessing he would condemn the perpetrators and the Catholic Church hierarchy for covering it up. I’m guessing he would also suggest that the bible is not nowadays used to justify practices that some Muslim preachers in this country use the koran to justify eg murder of apostates, non believers, homosexuals and vile abuse of women etc etc. If a Christian preacher quoted bits from the Bible to justify awful things being done to others in the name of Christianity, there would be a HUGE number of Christians ready to condemn that. This does not happen with these Muslim hate preachers.

Have you read what the Quran says about Jesus Christ? It changes annually, so what I put here now will probably change.

They say Jesus is just a prophet, that he is not the Son of God, was never crucified, never arose from the ground nor ascended into heaven.

I have seen worse. The interpretations they are putting on Christianity and other faiths is upsetting Christians all over the world. They have decimated Christianity, yet many are fleeing to Christendom. Why? Are they coming to be converted to Christianity?

How can Christian children in the school playground stand up to their beliefs in an argument with a muslim child who shouts ''Islamophobia'' at the top of their voice and the Christian is punished?

Christians do not insult Islam. Nor do we fear them. We fear what extremists can do when they are upset. Christians will not tolerate men who set themselves up as cult leaders and call themselves Christian. They are brought down when they are found.

llizzie · 30/08/2025 03:18

misoandchips · Yesterday 07:42

I agree with you. We should welcome Afghan women who are oppressed. Let the men go. They may have helped with language, but they would agree with the Taliban. The Taliban have boasted openly that floggings and stonings of women are carried out in public arenas. Do they know that is human sacrifice?

Their Morality Police force women to cover up, because they dress up like women and stalk them to make sure they don't go to school or work, or haven't boarded up their windows. They insist on covering up, because they have to and their hands and eyes would give away their sex!!

I would also rescue Iranian women from the Morality Police. I wrote supporting them when the woman died because a lock of hair was showing.

They are the refugees seeking asylum if they can. All those fit young men coming in boats are migrants

llizzie · 30/08/2025 03:23

amoobaa · 29/08/2025 07:06

@llizzie You’ve got a bit confused here, and mixed a lot of different things together, in a way that doesn’t really make much sense.

  1. History: Fascism isn’t defined by “any cruelty” — it’s a specific political ideology of ultra-nationalism, dictatorship, and suppression of minorities. Hitler didn’t “introduce” fascism; Mussolini coined the term in Italy first.
  2. Taliban ≠ Fascism: The Taliban are brutal and misogynistic, but they’re not fascists. They’re a religious fundamentalist movement — different history, different ideology. Lumping them together just distorts both.
  3. Immigration: Saying that supporting asylum seekers = supporting fascism is the exact opposite of reality. Fascism is about closing borders, scapegoating minorities, and demonising outsiders. Standing with vulnerable people fleeing persecution is the opposite — it’s anti-fascist.
  4. Smears about Muslim men: The claim that Muslim immigrants are all “military age men” who “assault women” is a sweeping stereotype. The vast majority of people fleeing here are looking for safety, jobs, and stability. Demonising entire groups because of the actions of a few is exactly the kind of thinking fascists used in the 1930s.

So if we really want to “learn from history,” the lesson is: beware of broad generalisations about entire groups, and don’t let fearmongering turn compassion into suspicion.

Don't tell me I am confused because I do not agree with you.

We are in the 21st century, and I do not think it appropriate to drag up the words used over a hundred years ago.

1919 was the big pandemic, when more millions died of flu than were killed in the war. When I said Hitler started his road to fascism, it was true, he did.

We cannot take a century old ideology and ascribe the same words to today. It makes no sense.

MyNameIsX · 30/08/2025 06:10

What fascism?

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