To ask if you'll be attending the anti fascism protest on 13 September

[Whatafustercluck]

I'd like to go in solidarity with like minded people, but worry about it turning violent. I won't be taking my children and will likely be going alone. Lots of people I know detest Tommy Robinson but will stay away due to the likelihood of trouble, but I really want to help send a message that racism and hatred won't win. Is anyone here considering going, or decided to stay away?

Criticising aspects of religion that you don't agree with / are harmful after proper study of that religion is one thing.

Tarring all adherent of said religion as bad actors wholesale leads to things like the Inquisition and witch burning.

That's where the danger lies, and where we're running into trouble.

Those who genuinely question religion and belief systems tend to apply the same level of scrutiny to all. That isn't what TR is doing though, is it. You raise an interesting point about child abuse in the church. TR has been very outspoken about the muslim grooming gangs, as have others - understandably so. Can you point me to where he's made public speeches condemning all those who abuse children whilst hiding behind their religion? What has he said about the abuse of children by priests?

@hotelinfo "And yes, some will be purely economic migrants. But being an economic migrant is hardly equivalent to being a 'sleeper' or a sexual deviant ffs"

If they are undocumented (either by design or accident) how do we know who the hell they are?.

Jews seem to be the ‘acceptable’ exception to that. Many people - generally those on the left - devote large portions of their lives to attacking the Jewish homeland and its diaspora Jewish supporters, to the exclusion of all else.

But no racism there, oh no. 🙄

If you’re looking for emblematic fascism to oppose you’ll find it right there on anti-Israel marches.

People like you are part of the problem.

This poster has written a well balanced thoughtful post and though you might not agree with it, your response to say ‘it’s batshit’ is problematic due to the fact most of the electorate will agree with many of her points.

The electorate has spoken and they are fed up with mass unskilled immigration of all kinds - that’s why they voted Brexit and those immigrants were predominantly white so you can’t use the racist rhetoric for that….

Reform will almost certainly win the next election because none of the previous governments have tackled the number of people entering Britain. The average person is fed up and it’s not racist for them to have that view.

Actually, glassmat, if you look properly, I have countered llizzie's posts with facts, explained extensively, and she has now begun to come round in the face of real solid information. It was you that I was saying it's batshit to, not llizzie.

People like you, who agree with misinformation and applaud those posting absolute nonsense, are a bigger part of the problem than those who call it out.

Go back and check.

I wouldn’t worry about what names they call you, they literally will call anyone who dares say they have concerns all the usual names - as if somehow helps their cause. The irony is, they are causing more harm than good because they try to shut down any discussions that might give a better understanding of people’s concerns

I don’t think he’s commented but I’m guessing he would condemn the perpetrators and the Catholic Church hierarchy for covering it up. I’m guessing he would also suggest that the bible is not nowadays used to justify practices that some Muslim preachers in this country use the koran to justify eg murder of apostates, non believers, homosexuals and vile abuse of women etc etc. If a Christian preacher quoted bits from the Bible to justify awful things being done to others in the name of Christianity, there would be a HUGE number of Christians ready to condemn that. This does not happen with these Muslim hate preachers.

Not it wasn’t me you were reply to, it was another poster agreeing with llizzie. You go back and check! It was MyLimeGuide you were replying to

Yeah okay, fair enough - I still stand by what I said however.

Her post was batshit - I replied to it with factual information - if you think education is part of the problem and calling out misinformation is too, then no wonder the more gullible of the disenfranchised people are being conned by the likes of Farage and his circus.

Your post is accurate @Glassmatt – but not in the way you think.

Farage and the leave campaigns said to people, "Don't get paid enough? Prices too high. Finding it hard to get a GP appointment? Unhappy with your life? Fed up? Then vote Brexit!"

And people did.

And they are still not paid enough and prices are too high and they find it hard to get a GP appointment and are unhappy with their lives and are still fed up.

Brexit didn't cure these things – because being in the EU wasn't causing them.

In fact Brexit made the economy worse as Farage knew it would. And it made smallboat immigration higher, as he also knew it probably would.

So the outcome of a Brexit was a bunch of clever politicians (Farage) got what they wanted and the people didn't.

Now Farage is doing it again. "Fed up with your lives? Here's your new target to go after."

And people will.

And they still won't be paid enough, and prices will still be too high, and they still won't be able to get a GP appointment, and they will still be fed up.

And a bunch of clever politicians (Farage & friends) will have got what they wanted, and the people won't.

I saw a description of the Brexit vote as national therapy for feelings, rather than a solution of the issues underlying the feelings. Nail on head.

Bear in mind Farage and his elite friends will never try to solve issues like pay not matching house prices or stretch in the NHS because they themselves benefit from the current shape of the economy.

And they also benefit from the people being fed up and amenable to Farage's next fake "solution".

They rub their hands, while real people suffer.

No one supports open borders.

I don’t think he’s commented...

Surprise me.

You know who else he doesn't comment about? The EDL.

Stephen Yaxley-Lennon aka Tommy Robinson founded the EDL and it has plenty of child sex-abusers.

Now, he's not responsible for the actions of people who aren't him, and sadly abusers are so common they are likely to be present in every organisation. But it's what you do next, once you know, that matters.

The most serious one was his EDL co-founder Richard Price; eventually Tommy caved to pressure and commented (lying). For the rest - some listed in this article - crickets.

https://hopenothate.org.uk/2022/01/11/tommy-robinson-is-a-hypocrite-when-it-comes-to-opposing-child-sexual-exploitation/

Notoriously, in June 2010 Lennon’s close friend and ally Richard Price was convicted of making four indecent images of children, and possessing cocaine and crack cocaine.[i] The vile images were found on his computer by police after he was arrested for disturbances at an EDL demonstration.

Far from condemning Price’s crimes, the EDL launched a campaign for his release. Lennon himself wholeheartedly supported Price, claiming he had been “stitched up” and that “Price has no idea how they were on his computer.”[ii] When Lennon’s claims became untenable, he switched positions and finally condemned him.

On 4 January 2011, six months after the conviction, Lennon released a statement attempting to distance himself and the EDL from Price, falsely claiming that at “no time has pricey ever been a leader of the EDL.” This was a lie, as on 4 June 2010 Lennon himself wrote that “The EDL have only this “Leadership” just for the record ….. Myself […] and Richard Price, we are the earliest founding members.” Lennon first defended a paedophile, and then lied about his association with him to protect his own and the EDL’s reputation.

See, this is the problem. "Guessing" he'd say or do that is nothing more than a vague hunch, is it? No evidence. But there is plenty of evidence against him in many other respects. I can understand well reasoned, evidenced debate about immigration - though I may ultimately disagree of course. What I cannot understand is those attempting to present TR as some kind of modern day saviour. No, he's just a hate-filled violent thug. And sadly, the fact that so many seem so willing to side with him perpetuates the belief - rightly or wrongly - that they hold very similar views and behave in a similar way. As I have said elsewhere, my views are sometimes derided as delusional leftie woke nonsense but the reality is that I am a centrist, as are many/ most. I just despise men like TR - and indeed those grooming gangs and priests, who prey on vulnerable people and make others scapegoats.

Well said.
Neither the far right guys, neither the far left gives a damn shit. To be honest, I suspect they are the same group, just trying to pull society appart with their extremes. So we do not march demanding the services we pay for. A fair wage to living costs. Actual GP and NHS care. And so on and on...

Well, to be frank, Jewish people know all too well what it's like to be part of a community persecuted to the point of extermination. I absolutely condemn the actions of Hamas in no uncertain terms. But when the UN and humanitarian organisations are shouting very loudly that a humanitarian crisis is unfolding - mass starvation etc - then surely the world should not ignore it. Gaza is effectively nothing more than an open air prison from which there is no escape, most of it rubble.

But anti-semitic sentiment is as abhorrent to me as islamophobia, and of course those abusing others - on marches or anywhere else - should be roundly condemned and robustly dealt with. But questioning the Israeli state's actions in Gaza is not ant-semitic in and of itself.

Ah, the usual.

Islam is a belief system that is totally at odds with core British values of tolerance, democracy, freedom of expression, women’s and minorities rights. It’s outlook far more “right wing” than Nigel Farage… so if you disagree with right wing perspectives, then you couldn’t do much better than to start with Islam.

Of course, individual Muslims have a wide variety of perspectives and views, and some like Sadiq Khan are actually very progressive, so I don’t want to tar Muslims with the same brush.

The grooming gangs operated in the communities that he is from and purports to represent, so it’s natural that he has spoken out against them.

Would you also berate a catholic speaking out about the sexual abuse scandals in the RC church for not taking equal time to condemn the grooming gangs? Presumably not…

And whilst we’re at it, why aren’t you equally calling out right-wingers in other places? What about Hungary or Slovakia… why are you just focussing on England?….Obviously it’s because it impacts you and your community more… Well, it’s the same with TR and the grooming gangs.

That’s odd because it’s got a fuck of a lot in common with Christianity.

Then why do you suppose Islamic Extremism makes up three quarters of MI5's counter terrorism case load and Christian Extremism doesn't

You may want to look at were generally the christian extremists live.
And then look at the phrase Domestic terrorism.

Because Christian extremism doesn’t really exist? The two faiths are remarkably similar.

Some much needed context here.
The left are having to do an awful lot of mental acrobatics to support what is in practice, a very right wing ideology.
Reminds me of when people were supporting Iran’s right to have a nuclear weapon because they hate Trump so much when Trump is actually left-wing compare to the Ayatollah.

I don’t like Trump, but I’d rather live in the US than Iran!