To be fascinated by tidy people

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I’m just not tidy. Nor is my husband. We try. Actually very hard. We have two young children and a dog but there is literally stuff everywhere, all of the time.

I live in London, so we naturally have many parent friends right on our doorstep and there is a ‘drop in’ culture where we might wrap up a playground or common trip and head to each others houses.

Ours is not fit for that kind of spontaneity but others fling open their doors at any time and it’s like no one even lives there.

when conversations come up about chores, cleaning, tidiness, I recoil. They really are extremely tidy people and with young kids. You can’t mistake walking into a tidy persons house, it just feels, different.

The floors and sofa/furniture in our house just don’t look like theirs, even if you have a whip round and tidy you can tell.

So, tidy people, tell me, how do you do it. What are the tips. Was this nurture growing up in a tidy household? Or something you learned? AIBU to be ashamed my pram, car, house is always in need of a clean.

I have read just about every post because it is interesting and I want to try to understand why DH is so chaotic, but I don't think that I have been able to fully able to understand the why.

But this is it - do you want to understand or do you simply want to continue feeling your way is best and being fed up with your DH because he can't meet your standards? There are a few of us on here who are trying to explain, but there are some posters who are stuck in the "Well, you SHOULD hang the coat up or put the teaspoon away, so I don't understand why you DON'T because you SHOULD" mindset. It's not the concept messy people have trouble with, it's the execution.

I think to people who have a very logical and rational thought process the inability to pick up a teaspoon off the floor, for example, just doesn't make sense. Stepping over it many times and getting more and more anxious is simply irrational and illogical.

But some people, myself included, have thought processes which could be described as 'irrational and illogical', as you term it. Our brains don't work in the same way as yours, that's what I've been trying to say. They often have their own logic or become overwhelmed and stressed and lose the ability to be 'logical' in the way you think of this.

We need to work with our brains, not against them. Things like visual cues, lists, sorting things in a way which is helpful for us and reduces stress etc. But it's very personal and while some things work, other 'systems' become another failed mess.

One thing I do think though is that it's the individual's responsibility to take measures to make things easier for themselves to function and to achieve what they have to achieve. So I wouldn't suggest 'hacks' to you that would help your DH, because ultimately it is him not you who should be trying to put organisational measures in place (visual cues and reminders) so he can successfully pull his weight. There's a bit of sexism at play here as well, in many cases. I've really struggled to put routines in place to make sure my kids are well-cared for, where they need to be on time and have everything they need. I've done it more or less successfully (we're mostly on time and the kids mostly have what they need) because I know that, if I slip up, the kids are the ones who suffer. I am perpetually burnt out managing this with my job and, although we're doing better, the house is still messy. I am kind to myself though, and accept my limitations, because I know I'm trying my best and it's me who will be picking up the pieces for any of my failures. Too many men don't try their best, opt out and still have someone going along behind them picking up the pieces so they never feel the full effects of their failure and have no motivation to do better. I can understand being fed up if you feel that ADHD is being used as an 'excuse' in these situations. For me, it's not an excuse, it's an explanation for why certain approaches work better than others.

You’re completely right @PassOnThat and so many have tried to explain on here and are met with ‘yes but why can’t you just put things away’.

Everything is harder when you have ADHD and it can get exhausting. Women can often spend their lives ‘masking’ which is tiring and creates anxiety. Like many I make sure I don’t drop the ball with my kids or my job. That means systems on systems! But I tend to have nothing left at the end of the day.

If you have a partner with ADHD and are struggling to understand why they can’t just do things or are assuming it’s just plain laziness. There‘s really good account on instagram called ‘ADHD love’ The guy is so kind to his wife and explains things very well.

I agree we need to work out routines and structures that help us. But they will be different to neurotypical people who just tidy as they go.

I agree we need to work out routines and structures that help us. But they will be different to neurotypical people who just tidy as they go.

I agree entirely. For example, "put everything back in its place immediately" doesn't work in my house since we have lots of clutter and lots of stuff that doesn't have a place.

What I do find is that reducing immediate stress saves energy. And that means more energy to sort the underlying problems. So I'm focusing on that right now.

An example - all our drawers and wardrobes need a sort out and a declutter. I can't find anything quickly in them and we have too much stuff. But I don't have the time or energy to sort this problem right now. So I have 5 boxes on the landing - Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. I spend some time on Sunday putting everything into those boxes that we'll need for the next week and then just leave them on the landing. So Monday morning, I'm not scrabbling around for pants, socks for everyone and school uniform for the kids. I just pick up the "Monday" box. And I've started putting things into the boxes straight from the clean laundry. I don't bother folding or anything, just chuck things straight in.

Another one - toothbrushes. We're usually in a hurry to get out, but obviously it's really important that the kids' teeth get brushed. I used to forget until we were leaving and then have to hoick everyone upstairs to the bathroom again. Now we have toothbrushes everywhere - upstairs bathroom, by the kitchen sink downstairs and even in the car in case I forget and remember on the way to school. Same with sun cream and hand cream.

School uniform doesn't go into drawers/cupboards anymore. I have a big box that it's all chucked in and taken out as needed (apart from coats/bags). When the holidays come, it is washed and chucked into the box, and then the box goes at the back of the laundry cupboard until it's back to school.

We no longer have clothes all over the floor upstairs. What we have are more boxes - one for each of us, and then towels/sheets. The laundry is sorted by being chucked into the correct box, and then people just take what they need from the boxes.

These methods might not work for others, but they've made things better for me. House is still a mess but we're reducing the immediate stress and I feel less burnt out. But none of this comes easily to me.

@PassOnThat my apologies. I have clearly worded my post rather clumsily because you think I don't want to understand, and you are so wrong.

I want to understand why DH acts as he does. He has asked me to remind him about stuff that needs doing because he just doesn't see that the floor needs vacuuming or deadlines need to be met or a family birthday is imminent. I just don't want to nag, just remind him.

At 73 he just isn't interested in putting his own system into place either.

I guess with the boot on the other foot you must find it hard to get your head around just being able to pick that teaspoon up or put the corkscrew away as soon as you have finished with it.

Yes reducing stress is a big part of it. ‘Just put things back’ doesn’t work for me either.

Funnily enough we did the boxes for sports clothes! That worked quite well. Toothbrushes downstairs also
and sun cream!

We have to work with our brains rather than against them.

@RampantIvy . I can completely understand your frustration. It comes down not just to different approaches and limitations but also to responsibility and willingness to take responsibility.

In our house, I am default. We can argue over the rights and wrongs of that, but ultimately if I don't do it, it doesn't get done. If I don't take responsibility for maintaining minimal levels of cleanliness and order, things will spiral out of control. I find this very difficult because I'm not wired in a way which enables me to put effective routines in place and then follow them consistently. But ultimately the buck stops with me. If I leave a teaspoon on the floor or crumbs over the surfaces, they will still be there a week later. And we will live in a house that is making us all feel a bit stressed and grotty, and I will feel that I am letting down my kids. So I do what I can, but I also have to be realistic about my own limitations and about not getting stressed with myself or my kids when I can't manage stuff.

In your house, it sounds like you are default. If others don't do things, they will be left for you to do. And your DH is apparently messing up the work you've already done to achieve a clean and orderly house and then refusing to take responsibility for that and for finding systems that work for him. So I can understand that it's frustrating.

If you're ok with his lack of motivation and you want to work with him to put a system that works for him in place, I'd suggest something like chore cards with pictures on them. Give him 5 chore cards and ask him to work through them, things like "clear kitchen surfaces", "wipe hob", "clean loos", "tidy coat-rack". But really he should be doing this himself.

Toothbrushes downstairs also
and sun cream!

Sun cream is on the windowsill as we walk out the front door. So we see it as we leave the house. That helps.

Well generally you wouldn’t have all of those things at once, all of the time, but the point is, most people come in with things in their hands, and hands must be empty before coats can be removed. Whether those things are in bags that make them easier to carry or not, they still need to be dealt with when you bring them in.

I do eat in my car and I like it that way, but that means cleaning up after myself and DD. (Leftover food on wrappers and in trash bags smells if you leave it for a week in the hot car. Not to mention the possibility of rodents and ants taking residence in various parts of the vehicle.) I do have dogs (three of them), and we only have two leashes presently, so they do need to come in. I let DD take toys in the car to help reduce screen time and allow me to get some peace and podcast time in when I’m driving; those need to come in, and sometimes her hands/bags are more full on arrival home than when she left. Her school bag is usually too big for her to carry herself…

The point is, people are different, and I think it can come off as very dismissive and/or out of touch to just repeat “clean as you go and don’t be lazy, then there won’t be so much work to do.” There will always be work to do when you have children and/or pets. It’s a matter of coming to terms with it and figuring out what strategy best for you as an individual.

You say you’re not “running around tidying all day” but you are. When you do the dishes as you make them instead of all at once at the end of the day, that’s cleaning/tidying.

When your family members clean up after themselves, that’s them cleaning/tidying throughout the day (some people’s family members don’t do that, so they have to pick up after them instead. In my case, for example, if I were to have DD pick up her toys, it would take all day of me supervising her and keeping her on task to get it done; it’s faster to give her a few jobs/items to put away and do the rest myself, and I assume it’ll be like that until she’s older and better able to focus.)

When you use items in your house and put them back immediately after use, that’s cleaning/tidying. Doing it “as you go” instead of in bursts doesn’t make less work; you just don’t recognize it as work because you are a “tidy person.” It’s still going to feel like a lot of work that requires conscious effort for “untidy people.”

I think it can be really discouraging for “untidy people” to hear other people making light of the work they do throughout the day. It’s easy to think “This is so hard. I’ll just never be like them. I should give up,” rather than “Being ‘like them’ requires expending more time and effort on tidying than I currently do. I just have to accept that and keep pushing on.” It’s important to be honest about it.

@PassOnThat
The replies regarding the one touch or put it away system from me were in reply to the constant suggestion that tidy people must just spend all day doing chores with the added implication that we must be rigid bores surgically attached to a vacuum cleaner
Which is not true
Again its one action
Put it where it belongs
As opposed to put it in a pile( one action) and then have to tidy it away later( second action)
If you multiply that by all the things you do in a day it creates far more work -double in fact so no wonder the messy people feel overwhelmed and exhausted.

I couldn't care less if someone else's house is a mess so no SHOULD from me but to say I must do sooooo much tidying is untrue

There is definitely something in being physically able to put things away.

I have quite a few adhd traits plus I’m physically disabled and live with high levels of pain. I’ve just finished a snack and the wrapper is next to me on the sofa, it will stay there until I can get back up and go to the kitchen.

I have to have my painkillers on the sofa as I need them regularly and I will not take them unless I can see them.

so the OHIO method doesn’t work for me, but I can see why it works for others who don’t need visual reminders of things and can get up and down frequently etc.

It definitely helps if mess makes you anxious. 🤣 I can’t settle in a messy house so to calm my mind I have to tidy first. Once it’s tidy, I am at peace ✌️

This makes no sense to me. There are days where breakfast lunch and dinner dishes aren’t done as we go and are put in the sink to do in a oner before bed. Either scenario doesn’t lead to “running about all day”. In the first scenario I walk two feet to my sink and wash 3 bowls and spoons. Doesn’t even take 5 minutes. In the second scenario all the dishes are washed in about 15 minutes at some point before we turn in.

So dishes (either done after each meal or in 15 minutes at the end of the day) plus my son tidying his toys, was all the tidying done that day. This doesn’t constitute “running around all day tidying.”

How does it take a whole day of you supervising your daughter to get her to tidy up her toys? My son plays with whatever he wants throughout the day and puts them away before bed.

This is why my house is tidy- there isn’t a mess constantly needing sorted. I don’t run around all day long tidying. Incant imagine anything more boring the hovering over my child to make sure he tidies. I spend my down time on the couch! I think if it takes an entire day of cajoling your child to tidy up they probably have too many toys so it’s overwhelming for them. My 4 year old can tidy his toys by himself in 5 minutes.

Op anyone with two young kids can’t be lazy if they’re parenting at all, they just can’t. If you even have a high hair you have a child that means you do more running around and you sleep less than people like me who have older kids. You have to remember that.

I think it takes a lot more work for some of us, it’s like creativity or someone who’s good at maths, some people automatically know the optimal way to put things away and clean faster than others. My dh, two bils, my sister, sil and mil are like thins, myself and my mum will have to fiddle stuff around or redo tidying whereas my sister can make any of our houses show home ready in minutes. She also washes and folds like she works for a clothing company!

We recently had guests who were relatives over for two weeks and I tidied and cleaned for weeks ahead of them coming but when they came they helped out and the place was 1000 times better. I was so thrilled until afterwards when I found out he suggested to dh we get a cleaner in as he couldn’t believe anyone lived like we did and we seemed swamped. I had thought the place looked really good ahead of them coming, yes I saw the difference when they cleaned but it was generally clean. He said they were exhausted going home:(

Where I live the reservoirs are just under 36% full and we have had a hosepipe ban for several weeks, so I am leaving my dishes to do in one session to save water.

You’re missing the point entirely. Like you said, whether you do the dishes as you make them, or at the end of the day, maybe you make 15 minutes of dishes total daily. Cool. But I assume you and your family members do things throughout the day besides sit on the floor interacting with nothing; you presumably use things, and you presumably put them back where they belong as soon as you’re finished with them. That’s tidying.

You’re doing it all day long without even realizing it, whereas an “untidy person” will either have to expend conscious effort to do that— picture an individual with ADHD, for example, going around saying aloud “put it away, not down”— or they save the tidying “for later.” (Whether they actually get around to putting their things away “later” is what determines the total tidiness of their home.)

Like I said, the past few days I have been tidying consciously and constantly: not the the things that I use, but the things DD uses and the occasional items DH uses and leaves misplaced. The dishes are getting done as soon as they’re made. Countertops and tables are wiped as soon as we’re done cooking/eating. Books that were perused during breakfast are returned to their respective bookshelves. If I notice a toy in the middle of the living room that isn’t being played with, it gets taken down to the recreation room, preferably if one of us is already on our way downstairs. If the rug is askance or the pillows are on the floor or the throw blanket is crumpled instead of folded neatly over the couch, that’s corrected. Tooth brushes, tooth paste, hair brushes, cosmetics, any other hygiene items: put back in their new precise spots in the bathroom drawer or hutch if left out. If I see hair on the sink from anybody’s head or face (looking at you, husband dearest) that gets wiped away. Towels and clothing on the floor after DD showers: taken care of immediately. Laundry has been done as soon as I have a hamper full or the bedding is dirty (see:dogs) or the clean towels run out (usually a load every day to every other day), and the hampers are replaced and laundry put away. If the dog bowls are dirty when I go to feed them, I stop to wash them. Mail in the mail place gets sorted instead of being allowed to pile up. So on and so forth, literally all day long.

The house looks great! But I would be LYING THROUGH MY TEETH if I said I’m not tidying all day long to keep it that way.

Also: children are differently abled. Mine struggles with a short attention span and with following directions. She’ll probably figure it out with time and more practice.

OP, it sounds as if you are really overwhelmed, and I can understand that. I think that you'd need to have a serious blitz of decluttering and cleaning, and that you maybe need more storage, but that would require you to block out a big tranche of time, very difficult to do with young kids. What might be manageable, though, would be for you and your husband to find two or three hours one evening when the kids are in bed to make a list of everything you need to do to get things straight, so you could tackle it incrementally. For a first step, if you had space in your hall for a large cupboard with shelves and hanging space, you could use that to stash coats, shoes, buggies, school bags, etc. out of sight. IKEA is a good place to start. My home looks pretty tidy and uncluttered, but I have a spare room and plenty of cupboards in which to stash my junk, as well as a garage, which is full of boxes that I haven't looked at for years! Could you afford a cleaner? If so, you might have to do some decluttering first, but it could be very helpful. You can hire people to do a major blitz initially, and then come regularly (or not). Those other parents with clean houses likely have cleaners and other domestic help; I bet that they're not handling all themselves!

Please don't take offence, but you seem to have some traits associated with ADHD, and maybe your husband does too. Procrastinating, letting tasks pile up, leaving clothes to pile up, feeling exhausted and shutting down when overwhelmed, feeling shame, struggling to get up in the morning: these are all behaviors familiar to those with ADHD. It takes a long time to get a diagnosis and meds in the UK, but it might be worth talking with your GP or at least investigating online. ADHD Women sub-Reddit is full of posts offering strategies to those who are struggling with organization, and there is also an excellent book by K.C. Davis called How to Keep House while Drowning. You may be depressed, which is of course a standalone condition but also co-morbid with ADHD, and/or you may be deficient in some vitamins or minerals. It sounds as if you need to carve out some time to take care of yourself. Don't beat yourself up, OP.

It just seems like a long list of work that I’m not doing. If I read a book and leave it on the bedside table, that’s not mess. It’s just a book. I’m not constantly thinking about putting everything away the second I use it. If my son drags all ten books off his bookshelf because he’s reading them on the floor in his room or in a den he’s built, that is “mess”, but he’s a kid. And he tidies them away himself. If I keek round his door to say it’s time to go to nursery and all his books are out I’ll say “we’re going now, tidy those up.” As he only ever has about a dozen in his shelf at any given time (we rotate books) then it takes him seconds.

Listing the most mundane of things and calling it “tidying” is a bit of a stretch. If you brush your teeth, you don’t put the toothbrush down on your dining table or in your car. You’re brushing at the sink so when you’re done you put it in whatever holder is right there. That’s not tidying anymore than remembering to put your toilet paper in the toilet and flush it is “tidying”. Same with the dog dishes (cats for us). They’re always dirty when you go to feed them- because they’ve eaten out of them. Part of putting fresh food down is washing them first. I don’t think of it as “ugh, stopping to wash the dishes” any more than I think “ugh, stopping to feed the cat.” It’s just a normal daily responsibility.

It sounds to me like you’ve got too much stuff. Our house could be a bomb site at the end of the day and it still would only take 10 minutes to put back together. I would definitely drown in too much stuff. I don’t want to think about tidying, or spend time tidying. Own less, tidy less. I guarantee if you own less, a single book on a table, a blanket on the couch not neatly folded, or a slightly squinty rug will not make your home look messy.

Of course we live in our house and do things throughout the day, but never have I thought I tidy “all day long” in order to keep a tidy home. That’s not physically possible if I were to graph how much of my day I spend sitting on my couch! Unless I’ve mastered tidying by telekinesis.

From reading other posts on here, the problem seems to be owning too much stuff.

No you really don’t want to ask her. My SIL has four children ranging from 10 to 16, her and my BIL had a plan a baby every two years no excuses or compromises allowed. Her home is a showcase for how to live your best life, at least in her head. The reward for both, is all their children can’t stand to be around them. Their entire childhood is about holding back because you must never make a mess, example only drink allowed is water doesn’t stain, the kids are so programmed even where there are other options the answer is no thank you. Now that the oldest can take the younger ones out I feel like we now have six kids. I apologize I didn’t mean to make this about me, my point is be careful what you wish for.

Poor kids. A tidy home needn’t come at the expense of a happy childhood. Only water! Madness.

I love the tidy, but cosy and lived in feel. One of my favourite sights at the end of the day is whatever creation my son has made being left up to play with the next day. A castle made of magnatiles, or bits of cardboard taped together to make a garage, with matchbox cars carefully lined up inside. I love it.

I hope her children rebel against this and raise their own children differently.

The kinds of "armfuls of stuff" I tend to have when we come in the door after Kindergarten -

My own bag
At least one coat from a child who refused to wear it and didn't give a fig if it was abandoned on the pavement.
Maybe my own coat because the day started off cold and got hotter
An art project one or both children made at school which are essential to keep
A letter sent home by one of the children's teachers (TBF this is usually folded and put into my own bag, but it can get lost in the black hole)
A spare pair of shoes which got left there another day, or the collection of five jumpers DS2 keeps taking and then abandoning which are threatening to take over the entire cloakroom.
A snack I took to try and fend off the after-school meltdown, which somebody has refused to finish and it was after we had passed the last bin on the route
At least one child's bag because they refused to walk and carry it at the same time, and on this occasion I had absolutely no strength left to stand in the burning hot sun and parent them into walking while holding their bag, so I just carried it instead because at least that way we are making a miniscule amount of movement towards home.

TBF on some days I do get them to carry their own bags and coats. And much of the time I take the buggy and shove all of these things into the buggy. But DS2 is 4 now and I can't justify bringing it much longer.

DH doesn't understand why I say some days I can't get it together to remind the children to hang up their coats and bags and take their lunch boxes and water bottles out and place them into the kitchen.

I honestly cannot understand in what universe anybody does have that ability. And yet most people seem to do it every day. I assume it is different if you don't have ADHD and you don't have a child with ADHD and another child who is simply exhausted because he is learning a second language, but then DH is also dealing with the same two children, so 🤷‍♀️

I did leave my toothbrush on the kitchen counter the other day. I was about to brush my teeth in the downstairs loo, where I keep a spare toothbrush, and then for some reason I can't remember, perhaps someone else needed the bathroom urgently, I walked with my brush and mouth full of toothpaste to the kitchen sink to finish off and when I was finished I left the toothbrush at an entirely different part of the kitchen because I was worried if I left it next to the sink, someone would assume it was an old toothbrush (used for cleaning) and use it to scrub the limescale off the taps or whatever.

So my question is to anyone that knows (I haven't googled yet) - does ADHD get worse with age?

I read in a later post that your DH is in his 70s. Executive functioning is the skill set/brain process which is impaired with ADHD, and unfortunately, this does also deteriorate with age, so in the 70s it's quite likely that a combination of ADHD and age-related EF difficulties (e.g. forgetting why you've walked into a room is a common one people mention) can make it feel like ADHD is getting worse.

Just came back to say that after reading this thread, I’ve been trying to behave like a “tidy person” instead of “a person who tidies constantly,” and while my home looks much better, I have found that I am just spending a lot more time and energy on cleaning/tidying tasks “as I go” instead of just in infrequent bursts, and I am very tired at the end of the day.

Just wanted to add some encouragement and say that changing any behaviour is tiring at first - think about when you start a new job, you're often exhausted at the end of the day for the first few weeks and then slowly as you get used to it, you'll still be tired obviously after working but it isn't the same as the all-consuming exhaustion from doing something new.

I am still of the opinion that this kind of thing is more tiring for some people than others, but I think the new factor might be a part of it too, so it might be worth sticking with it for a while to see if it gets easier and which parts of it you might keep or drop. I do think that for me one part of my ADHD is that I give up on things much too easily and make a premature judgement that something isn't going to work so I might as well stop trying. I don't usually notice when I'm doing this in the moment but I'm trying to get better about it and stop when I think about quitting and give myself a short target by which, if it hasn't improved, I can quit with no guilt. If I do stick to this, I have an astonishing rate of success with whatever the goal was in general - I don't know whether it's because I relax, knowing that there WILL be an end point, and that makes it more likely to succeed, or whether it's just that there is typically a "hump" before the success point and I am sensitive to it or just that I'm quitting at the first sign of difficulty, whereas most things will succeed if you stick with them for a reasonable amount of time.

I would assume all neurological conditions get worse with age.
Like everything else that impacts health.

I set aside Sundays to clean. It's just my husband and I in a small condo. We don't have kids but we have birds, books, plants, collections, and too many hobbies to count. Each Sunday I do the routine things, laundry, dusting, kitchen, bathroom and throughout the week touch-ups and then still have to do other bigger tasks like cleaning out the fridge, taking clothes to Goodwill, emptying cupboards of old food. I spend the whole day but it's a stress reliever for me. I put on music or a podcast and feel better by the end.

A few of my friends who have the tidy homes, never seem spend time cleaning. They are always out doing stuff. I found out they hire a cleaner to come in once or twice a week. Unfortunately, I don't have the money or want someone to touch my stuff lol. Our place is cluttered but it's all in its place and clean. I am not a minimalist lol and so spend a lot of time organizing our stuff.

However, some days you have to be kind to yourself and have a rest or go out and have fun. You are a busy lady with a family and are doing your best. Who cares about what others think. It's your home and it's loved and loved in.