To be fascinated by tidy people

[tangerinemagic]

I’m just not tidy. Nor is my husband. We try. Actually very hard. We have two young children and a dog but there is literally stuff everywhere, all of the time.

I live in London, so we naturally have many parent friends right on our doorstep and there is a ‘drop in’ culture where we might wrap up a playground or common trip and head to each others houses.

Ours is not fit for that kind of spontaneity but others fling open their doors at any time and it’s like no one even lives there.

when conversations come up about chores, cleaning, tidiness, I recoil. They really are extremely tidy people and with young kids. You can’t mistake walking into a tidy persons house, it just feels, different.

The floors and sofa/furniture in our house just don’t look like theirs, even if you have a whip round and tidy you can tell.

So, tidy people, tell me, how do you do it. What are the tips. Was this nurture growing up in a tidy household? Or something you learned? AIBU to be ashamed my pram, car, house is always in need of a clean.

I can’t do things unless I am under pressure to do them, (think guests arriving with 5 minutes notice kind of energy) so now I use a timer. If I have 30 minutes I’ll do a 15 minute timer and blitz for 15 then sit for 15, or sometimes the motivation has me so I continue on.

i also did a ruthless mass clear out of clutter in the past month and sent 30 bags to charity/dump.

This has significantly improved the look of our home which is definitely starting to look tidy.

I am also not allowed a kitchen bin as myself (possible ADHD, and my husband who has CPTSD are generally woeful in that if we don’t see it right in front of us we forget about it) so a bin can be left to get rather messy and smelly, then it becomes a monumental task to deal with which we both want to avoid.

So instead we use a small bin liner hung in an inconspicuous corner near the back door that gets emptied twice a day when full.

Small hacks. Big impact.

Oh I remember this shame, the teacher puzzled, asking how I'd lost another book, asking if I lived in a mansion? Socks were another trauma in the mornings, searching for a matching pair, saying all that, we were loved so much, so I survived.

Well done, small hacks make a massive difference.
I use a small bin too, takes seconds to empty.

The timer hack works really well.

DH is on bin duty (I joke it’s his only job). But I can really see how a small bin would work.

A “non tidy person” might come in from wherever, be pretty tired, have an armful of stuff from their car, and have their kids demanding things from them (whether or not they repeat, exasperated, to please give them a minute to get in the door.) They might drop the armful of stuff on their habitual dumping spot (for me, it’s a metal table in the entryway to the kitchen, or for keys/mail/headphones/wallets, it’s the “mail place, a counter near the metal table.) They then kick off their shoes (which may or may not make it into the shoe rack/closet) and take off their coat, and then turn to helping/commanding their DC to take off their shoes and coats (hopefully before they drag dirt into the house and empty their pockets. Who knows where the DC have placed their backpacks/lunchboxes/whatever else they carried in with them.) Now they’ve got an armful of coats, kids still asking for things, maybe they notice the dog had an accident in the house or chewed something up during the day, everything is stressful and chaotic. So they put the coats down on the back of the couch, go and fix a snack and some drinks for the DC, clean up after the dog, what have you, and then…

Oh, they better get dinner started because it’s getting late and DP will be home soon and the kids still need to get their baths and get to bed at a reasonable time because if they don’t, they’ll be huge PITAs tomorrow. So they hurry up and get dinner on the stove and/or in the oven, making a normal amount of cooking mess, and then head into the bathroom to run the bath for one child, then come back to the kitchen to start cleaning up. Maybe they get a little bit done, like the ingredients put away, but none of the dishes are attended to yet and the countertops are dirty. Maybe the DC start fighting or asking for help with their homework or one wants their attention, so cleaning is on hold until that’s dealt with. Now the bath is full and it’s time to help one child into it. They sit with them for a few minutes and get them clean and dry and into their pajamas, and then DP is home and dinner is ready to be taken out and served up.

Everyone sits down to eat, then carries their dishes to the sink. DP takes over bathtime for the other DC, while they work on cleaning the kitchen and doing dishes, and then they go to help with bedtime. After all the kids are asleep, they survey their home, and while the kitchen is clean and tidy now…

There’s the coats on the chair, shoes outside of the closet, the stuff from the car in the dumping spot, the unopened/unsorted mail, the DC’s backpacks/lunchboxes/pocket contents and all of the things they were playing with, there’s decorative couch cushions on the floor, snack dishes and associated crumbs, clothing that didn’t make it into the laundry hamper (which is full, btw— better get a load started), bath toys in the tub and towels not hung up… It’s a whole disaster.

Then they’ve got to choose: do they stay up for another 30-45 minutes taking care of all of it (aka, the “evening reset?”) Do they take that time to sit with DP, or maybe take them to bed and fool around? Maybe they desperately need some decompression time so they opt for a nice long shower themselves (or maybe not, because all the hot water is probably gone and also they’ll need to fold the laundry once it comes out of the dryer. Also, the dog needs his evening meds.)

If they don’t choose to clean everything that night, then it gets left for tomorrow, and the day is started with a less-than-tidy home. For a lot of people, this is the start of cumulative mess that they’ll fight and fight and be overwhelmed by, and then it might become difficult to get started.

But what’s also difficult is, in those chaotic moments when you’re getting in the door and trying to take care of all your dependents and responsibilities, is to put all the shoes in the closets, hang all the coats, get all the backpacks/lunchboxes properly emptied and put away, the mail sorted, the stuff from your car taken care of, the dishes done and counters wiped while you’re cooking, etc.— aka, “cleaning as you go.” (Also, getting your DC and DP to clean as they go as well.)

So then it becomes a matter of personal preference and circumstance: 1) Are you able to tend to those things immediately, or are you forced to do them when you get a chance? And 2) Would you prefer to do it now, or do it later? After all, it takes the exact same amount of time to put something away whether it’s done on your arrival home or after the DC have gone to sleep; it’s just a matter of whether you actually do it…

A cleaner, tidier home simply requires that one does more work to make it that way, and for it to be done with greater frequency if one wants a home that is constantly ready for unexpected guests at any time. And as I said… it just feels like habit to “tidy people,” so they don’t see it as much work at all.

Yep. That sounds like a living nightmare. I’ll keep my life where I don’t do much work at all but the house still stays tidy regardless.

What’s the husband doing in this chaotic mise-en-scène?

So beautifully explained (you write really well).

Then see the response from the ‘tidy person’ 😂. Such a lack of empathy and just ‘why isn’t everyone perfect like me’…

I don’t recognise any of this at all. What is this armful of “stuff” so I can figure it out?

I'm wired to notice mess and twitch at it. I have dyspraxia and tidiness is my coping mechanism. I need my house tidy before I can function on other things/ do other jobs. I do a lot of the stuff mentioned already tbh. I have a routine for doing various chores - shared with DH a bit a day, and we tidy as we go. I do things like plump up the sofa when I get up or pass by and notice it needs it. Jobs aren't complete until the tools etc are away. I prioritise storage & having a home for everything. Once you're used to it, it's just the amount of timd it takes I suppose.

Never let it build up either. We're both a bit under the weather tonight. I'll prioritise finishing stuff left over when I start tomorrow.

@Kitchenbattle

I don’t recognise any of it either. Armfuls of things I can understand depending on the person’s job. The other faffing about I can’t get my head around.

I do recognise difficult days like your example @happyLittleAG but as you've pointed out, to neglect that last bit of tidying is totally shooting yourself in the foot in terms of future chaos.

Either I'd force myself to do it no matter how tired or if I was ill and really couldn't, I'd accept sorting out the resulting build up of chaos is how I was going to be spending my next day off. Instead of relaxing or doing something fun. Like, the weekly clean was going to take twice the effort and 1 1/2 the usual time and I'm going to finish the day exhausted. I'd accept that and suck it up and do what needs to be done to get it all sorted out. Including, if necessary, taking a day off work just to sort out the chaotic mess. Because I can't stand living in mess. It affects my ability to peacefully sleep. And my ability to relax at all. The mental load of it is there even if I'm not looking at it. There's no out of sight out of mind for me.

There's no magic solutions and everyone has hard days. If you want a tidy house you just have to choose to prioritize it, then get on and do it, because it isn't going to do itself. If you want to prioritise relaxing or spending time doing fun stuff or just feeling less tired because you've sat down more, that's fine - but don't be moaning about your messy house and saying you don't know how it happened. It happened because you didn't tidy it up.

Youngest DC goes to uni in a few weeks, im planning a deep reset in my house this autumn. If I get rid of the excess clutter, I’ve promised myself I’ll get a cleaner every week once it’s an easier setup. Enjoying this thread

Trash (food wrappers, if you eat in your car, papers, paper or plastic bags, etc.), gym clothes, dog leashes, children’s toys and school bags, laptop, charging cords, headphones, books, suitcases, groceries, other purchases… Unless you just leave those things in the car, and then your car becomes trashed (as I’ve found out many a time. It’s better to bring it in and dump it on the table, as I’m more likely to deal with it when it’s in my sight at home, rather than only in sight when I’m driving.)

Well, I didn’t specify gender. But assuming “they” is a wife and DP is a husband in this scenario, let’s he gets home from after her, having worked later, and takes over childcare (bathing + bedtime routines) Then I suppose he could help with tidying, but perhaps they have agreed that it’s her responsibility because he works longer hours and contributes more to the family financially. Maybe he handles the “life admin” after the DC are asleep. Or perhaps he just wants to relax and spend time with his wife, too.

On weekends, maybe he does things like the lawn and car maintenance, home repair/improvement tasks. He can assist with the general cleaning, pet care, child care, shopping, food prep, and whatnot. However they best share the mutual responsibilities.

ok I just had the realisation that the way I am also applies to the car 🤣Trash (food wrappers, if you eat in your car,- no I don’t eat in the car.
papers, paper or plastic bags, etc- I have a bin in my car that gets emptied once a week gym clothes- these would be in a bag
dog leashes,- I don’t have a dog but i imagine would always keep a leash in the car (and a second in the house)
children’s toys and school bags- the dc can carry those themselves
laptop, charging cords, headphones - all in one bag that would go on my shoulder
books- possibly
suitcases - only when returning from holiday groceries- in bags so one or two at a time, If dc are with me then they help.
other purchases- possibly

but no I wouldn’t have ALL that stuff at once getting out of the car.

I'm a naturally clean tidy person but I also find keeping on top of things a bit overwhelming because I grew up in a messy, dirty home and have had to learn how to keep things clean and tidy as an adult. My DH is also quite untidy by nature and does a bit of a half-hearted job with cleaning (e.g. it's his job to do a weekly deep-clean of the kitchen but he routinely forgets to clean the oven or wipe the kettle/microwave/cupboard doors down). So our house is dirtier than I'd like but generally not too messy thanks to a couple of habits I have that I think help keep things relatively tidy - I routinely put things away where they belong and am teaching the DC (age 5 &2.5) to do the same (e.g. they hang up their coats and put away shoes, we stop playing 5 mins before bedtime to put toys away, they know to put wrappers/banana peels etc in the bin). I will also be generally tidying surfaces etc a bit while they're playing. I don't really sit down to relax until after they're in bed. Also, having a robot vacuum helps keep the floors tolerable - and forces me to pick stuff up off the floor!

Wow! Well what an absolute saint you are!
Some of us don't have the time to keep "on top of it every day",or the money for a full professional clean. Absolutely ridiculous comment, even by MN standards.
OP, I feel you; the thing I think you need to remember, is that there's a difference between "dirty" and "messy". Messy is unavoidable,especially when you have children; Dirty is not.

I grew up in a clean but messy home. The reason for this is that both my parents find it difficult to get rid of things; one because they might come in useful, the other for sentimental purposes.

I have three siblings. 2 of us are tidy, and we would both say that it is in reaction to our childhood. However, the other 2 are messy.

The differences that I notice are

1. tidy brother and I know where everything lives, so it’s easy to have clear surfaces and floors. When I am at my other siblings’ houses, there are often things I can’t put away, as there isn’t somewhere to put them, so they just live ‘on the side’.
2. we ‘see’ displaced items and put them away as we go along. For example, if we are going from one room to another room, we’ll just carry the stuff that needs to be moved there with us.
3. we always have to be doing something with our hands. We’re not people who sit still and relax. Sometimes it’s doodling, sometimes it’s just twiddling our fingers, but if there’s something that needs doing, we’ll do it as we’re chatting. It happens at an almost subconscious level.

The above means that there is no need for intentional sessions of tidying, as everything is put away as the day goes on.

My tidy brother is almost freakishly clean, but I would say that the rest of us are actually at a similar level of cleanliness. In fact, I’m pretty slovenly in some ways - I don’t dust regularly or clean skirting boards. I don’t iron clothes. My house just looks tidier as there is no clutter as everything is put away.

Good grief @happyLittleAG

“non tidy person” might come in from wherever, be pretty tired, have an armful of stuff from their car, and have their kids demanding things from them (whether or not they repeat, exasperated, to please give them a minute to get in the door.)

And?

We are all tired at the end of the day, with stuff to put away
Children can be demanding but you are the parent.
My reply to " demands" would be to tell them
" hang up your coat, put your shoes and bag away and go wash your hands"
You can have snack/ TV etc when you have done that.
It all sounds like total emotional dysregulation and overwhelm to me
Rushing about dumping stuff here there and everywhere just because DC wants something -what is that teaching them?
Where is the urgency in any of those things that you need to just dump stuff everywhere?

You will probably come back with but my DC has a tantrum etc but actually teaching children to wait, take turns and emotionally regulate is simply part of parenting.

If they need the loo quickly fair enough.

Otherwise no there is absolutely nothing that would mean I needed to carry the coats through the hall to dump them on the sofa.

Rubbish -straight in the bin outside, it wouldn't even enter the house let alone be dumped on a table.
You are creating all this extra work, it's then double the effort to deal with it.

Sorry quoted wrong person

I also meant to add.
Do you think in school DC would just be allowed to chuck their stuff everywhere?
No of course not.
It's one of the first things they learn
Put your stuff on your peg

I just wanted to add that having 3 small children is going to make it more difficult to be tidy, both because they add to the entropy and because they have a lot of stuff, and a lot of their stuff is big and incongruous! They also take up your time.

They are at peak messiness, so cut yourself some slack.

Thinking back to that stage, I didn’t have three, so immediately so much easier for me. But a couple of things that helped were

1. getting child involved. Everything must be put away before the next activity starts. Toddlers love to help, and I think it’s easier to get them to take accountability for their own stuff when they are older, than if they get used to mum just doing it all
2. lots of time out of the house. Yes, you have less time to tidy when working, but actually, on reflection, there’s also less time to create mess if your children are at nursery! That may not be applicable as it sounds like you’re still at baby stage, but thinking back, we spent a lot of maternity leave and our free time in the pre-school years out of the house. (Running around the park or the woods also brought energy levels down to manageable once home).
3. having ‘landing zones’ - there was a place for nappy bags etc to sit until I was ready to deal with them.

kitchenbattle,same here .we do have dogs x 2,spare leads in the car,no eating or drinking allowed in it! DH keeps the car pristine. I had 4 DKs, mostly working ft,big garden, lots of animals,lived rurally, only one car. Looking back I did find it hard at times, when my youngest was little. I've been a cleaner,was shocked at the state of some people's homes! One woman used to put coins under the chair legs to see if I had moved the furniture to vacuum and dust properly! My ex H had his own cleaning company,we tried employing people,every one of them was dismissed, not one did a proper job! I am surprised how many people on MN in general seem to have cleaners..I wouldn't want a stranger in my home, especially on seeing how these folk cleaned offices. I have friends where you have to stand up and wait for them to clear a space so you can sit on the sofa, another who changes her bedding DAILY , I think Im comfortably in the middle
Oh, actually Im.in the middle of 2 people who haven't cleaned a window in 14 years!

.

I'm not sure why people assume untidy = never puts anything away. I am not a tidy person. Despite that I put away the teabag tin and the milk after using them this morning. I put away the bread, butter and chocolate spread after breakfast. I moved the plates from the table to the kitchen. I left my cup on the table because I'll probably use it again soon. I haven't yet emptied the dishwasher of yesterday's dishes because my daughter wanted me to play with her marble run with her (she can't build it by herself yet). I then helped her clear away the marble run before her letting her get out the play food from her kitchen. Then her dad got up from his lie in so I had a quick shower and rushed to the post office before it closed. Did some shopping on the way home, which I of course immediately put away. I've just sat down for 2 minutes but once I've finished typing this I'm off to put on a load of washing before my partner goes in the shower (washing machine is in the bathroom). Then I'll make lunch for myself and my daughter. And there's still the dishwasher waiting for me!! I can also see the clothes horse full of now dry clothes from a couple of days ago, my daughter's colouring pencils and paper, two dolls that I'm not allowed to move because they're sleeping apparently, various letters/bills/papers on the table (not all mine), some paintings my daughter did yesterday that were left out to dry, my daughter's ear protection (doesn't currently have a proper home so is lying on a random surface), partner's cereal bowl and coffee cup are on the table (he ate while I was out), the local free paper that I want to read before putting it with the craft stuff to use for painting, a.cardigan hanging on the back of a dining chair... I won't go on, I'm sure you get the picture.

I am not sure that a lot of the advice the tidy people on this thread can give is particularly useful for us "messies" because there seems to be an unwillingness to understand that, as opened to just being lazy or disorganised, some people are wired differently. Lots of posts saying "I don't understand why people can't do this and that". No, you don't understand, and that's why what you say is interesting but ultimately of limited value. We need to work with what we have, not against ourselves. Routines, for example, are important but they need to be routines that work otherwise for people who are like me, we'll get very excited about having a new routine, spend a lot of time (and possibly money - new boxes etc) on making it happen, and then the new routine falls by the wayside and there's even more clutter in the house. For those of us who have issues with executive function, a lot of the routines on this thread simply won't work without modifications like visual reminders etc.

because there seems to be an unwillingness to understand that,

I don't think that is the case @PassOnThat . I think to people who have a very logical and rational thought process the inability to pick up a teaspoon off the floor, for example, just doesn't make sense. Stepping over it many times and getting more and more anxious is simply irrational and illogical.

A lot of what has been written on this thread describes DH to a T. A couple of examples - I will put something by the bottom of the stairs to be taken up by the next person who goes past it and he will just go upstairs empty handed. If I open a bottle of wine with a corkscrew I will put the corkscrew back in the drawer and the cork in the bin. He will leave the corkscrew with the cork in it on the worktop.

I have read just about every post because it is interesting and I want to try to understand why DH is so chaotic, but I don't think that I have been able to fully able to understand the why.

I will also add that as he has got older he has got a lot worse. He has been checked for stroke and dementia, and was all clear, but half the time he doesn't listen and seems to be on another planet. He says he needs to make a concerted effort to concentrate to listen these days.

So my question is to anyone that knows (I haven't googled yet) - does ADHD get worse with age?