DS 16 debagged at school

[Atomsplitter]

My 16 year old year 12 student has just disclosed to me that he was debagged/pantsed by another student while on his recent D of E expedition. Luckily he managed to hold on to his underwear but still very embarrassing 😳 He also said that the same student has been trying to do the same in the common room at school. DS has to tie his shorts really tight to prevent him from pulling them down. AIBU to think this is sexual assault? This person is not his friend and is a bit of a dick according to DS. He has targeted others too apparently, some have been totally exposed. I want to contact the school but DS doesn't want me to and won't tell me the students name.

I don’t know what UK law concerning this says, but upskirting and bra “pinging” strikes me more as sexual harassment than sexual assault.

I would count this as sexualised behaviour which is a safeguarding category and the school needs to be aware.

I’d certainly want to hear the perpetrator explain why it’s not sexual assault.

As a retired specialist in sexual assault, this most certainly is a sexual offence. I have been involved in many assessments and prosecutions of similar behaviour.

Thank you for the replies everyone. I'm going to have a chat with DS tomorrow and hopefully convince him to report this person when he returns to school. Whether it's sexually motivated or not, it's really not on and needs stopping.

Secondary schools is that time period were often awful fucking places. Bullying was rife and wasn’t always from fellow students.

Well that explains it. Private schools across the country are even now still coming to terms with the rampant and normalised sexual abuse and rape culture that has been going on for decades. Read Earl Spencer's memoirs for one example, and Nicky Campbell has spoken out about it too.

Depending on the severity of the situation, at the very least a child would get an internal exclusion for this behaviour.

Being attracted to someone isn't the only sexual motive, exposure of genitals is sexual assault, it can't be treated like exposing another body part like lifting up the back of his shirt or pulling his shoe and sock off, it's done because that is a private, personal area and organ and therefore the motive is sexually motivated, to expose someone's genitals and humiliate them. Report it OP this kid has issues

Report it regardless of whether you know the boys name or not. Totally unacceptable.

So if someone pulls your trousers/knickers down in public you are happy it is dealt with as someone being an asshole?

Somehow I don't think you would.

Why, because I care about the safety of the children I teach?

Your son's foot needs to come into contact with any part of this dickhead's body!
Face, balls, head... doesn't matter where but it needs to happen quickly!!

This will never stop til this twat is taught a lesson.

I know that sounds awful but it is unfortunately, true!

It's not okay at all. Going around deliberately attempting to expose people's genitals to humiliate them is disgusting. One could possibly pass it off as banter if it were between friends on a night out. But in school/college is never okay. Whether it constitutes sexual assault, I'm unsure - that's one for people with a greater knowledge of the law than me. But it is totally indecent behaviour and it has no place in a learning environment. Report it, even if you don't know the kid's name. Teachers will probably have an idea of who the little twat is and have ways of confirming it.

If someone did this to you in the street it would be a sexual assault so please don’t dismiss it because it’s children. Normal children don’t go round doing this and it needs highlighting to the school.

Yes, it's quite clear you didn't write the law. Had you done so, you'd likely know what it says.

Pulling down another person’s trousers and underwear against their will is sexual assault under the Sexual Offences Act 2003, since “touching” includes removing clothing - not necessarily skin on skin touch - and exposing genitals is inherently sexual. The courts have repeatedly made it clear that motive is irrelevant: whether done for gratification, bullying, humiliation or as a 'joke', it remains sexual assault. Where it's evident that the perpetrator attempted to remove underwear but wasn't successful, the offence is either sexual assault or attempted sexual assault.

I’d protect your son by calling and asking to speak to the safeguarding lead. Tell them your son is too scared to formally complain but that it has to stop and more supervision is needed. That way you’re protecting your son as best you can.

I've just read some of the replies and they would have been totalling different if a girl was involved.

This happened a lot when I was in 6th form college. Mostly boys doing it to girls, sometimes to boys. One girl had her knickers accidentally pulled down with her trousers and had to hit the deck to avoid everything being seen.

I think your DS has absolutely every right to complain (we weren't offended back then, but things have changed, also it was usually our friends) but I don't think you should complain against his wishes - at 16 it's his call.

The intent of removing someone's under wear in this way is to sexually humiliate them even if it isn't for someone sexual gratification. Therefore I believe it would be seen as SA

Upskirting is only sexual harassment? Err no - how can you minimise this awful intrusiveness. How can anyone even think think it’s a minor non crime..

You can still involve the police

He needs to be stopped

I'm a man, and a teacher, de-bagging has been around for as long as I can remember, it was done to me at a similar age to your son. Its embarrassing, but that's really the end of it.

Mostly as it was with me, and oft seen on school trips, just lads larking around, no malice. If its part of a wider campaign of bullying then its more sinister and worthy of reporting, but if its just friends mucking about I'd not be worrying about it.

I wouldn't normally consider it sexual assault, its more about causing embarrassment / entertainment amongst a group of teenagers rather than having a sexualised element - however, as above, context is key.

I’m a primary school safeguarding governor. A five-year-old deliberately pulled down another YR boy's trousers and pants in the playground, and the school recorded it as sexual assault. I thought that seemed OTT, but the HT explained to me that she'd asked the local safeguarding lead for advice and had been told this was correct. It did turn out to be useful in that it meant that Soc Services took the school's concerns about the home life of the perpetrator (already raised with them) more seriously.