National ID Cards

[Chakhakhan77]

Do you believe the government will bring them in? Keep seeing reports of this, freedom of speech slowly being taken away. Lots of videos of big crowds in city centres protesting about immigration. Are these AI videos? Are people/media exaggerating on the number of boats bringing people in? I don't know what is real anymore!

There are various photo ID cards that people can use instead. You have to have them for disabled blue passes, bus passes etc. and they can be used for ID verification at elections

This is already happening with those who use social media. It's unofficially a way to keep tabs on what the population are up to and when and who with etc. The government doesn't need to work too hard.

Definitely need these brought in.

They've phased out BRPs, how would ID cards for British nationals help anything?

That's NOT the purpose of the I.D card the UK Government is proposing.

Please do some research.

Exactly. But people are just stupid to understand what's going to happen.

As a born and bred UK citizen, I have a passport, a full driving licence, an NHS number and an NI number.

I work in a profession that requires a degree of security clearance, so there's that, too. Oh, and a sibling's job requires a much higher level of clearance, including family checks, so I'm on there as well.

I also have a mobile phone and live close to a major military base, so we're surrounded by CCTV / military police.

There's not much the government doesn't know about my (incredibly average) life. An ID card is probably the least of my worries compared to Google or the insane amount that the local Co-Op knows about my shopping habits.

I've lived in various countries where ID cards are mandatory, with extra little bells and whistles for foreign residents (South Korea being one).

Personally, I'm in favour of a mandatory ID scheme, but unfortunately I really can't see the UK and its ridiculous exceptionalism getting behind one.

Live in a country where we have a National ID card, you should carry it at all times. Never found it to be a problem. In fact I think it's a great idea. If you want to sell something to someone (car etc) you put their ID number on the documents can send it to the local version of the DVLA. Means you know exactly who it was sold too and not to a fake person.

Want to rent a house, landlord has to put down their ID, so does the renter, makes it far easier to find defaulters later if they just move out and leave all the bills behind.

Honestly the UK really needs one of these, it would make life so much easier, I remember having to find 2 pieces of ID to open a bank account - this would be far better.

As I said, the "environmental push".

Now imagine what a government could if it had full access to literally every aspect of your life, no privacy, no escape. It wouldn't just be illegal to wash your car on your driveway, they could make up any arbitrary rule.

So again. Are people here suggest that UK government is so much less trustworthy than other governments or why is it that Brits simply cannot have national ID?

Everything yours is already connected in one way or another anyway!

People like you are DANGEROUS. Your apathy, your weakness and willingness to just accept rules being imposed upon you are how regiems gain momentum.

The nearest safe countries already take more than their share.

Why don't you actually read up on the facts and figures instead of spouting the drivel fed to you by the red tops.

The Blunders Of Our Governments has a whole chapter on this.

In short, I don't think it will come in because its not entirely popular, it will be resisted and costly, and there is no evidence of proven benefits for the cost and hassle.

Instead of using the powers to check for criminals, it will end up being used to compliance by demanding details when there is no justification. That currently happens under section 5 of the public order act and section 50 of police reform act, when bullying officers like to try and intimidate members of the public, and no, it isn't criminals and naer do wells. Look at the DWP now having the power to go through people's bank accounts, local authorities with public space protection orders which are frequently misused. It is the thin end of a very thick wedge. Which groups do you think will be on the end of it? Even more black people being stopped and harassed for no reason. We don't want to just all end up on a government data based with a presumption of guilty till proven innocent.

bigbrotherwatch.org.uk/campaigns/no2digitalid/

In utopia it all works fine and we all live happily ever after because it stops all crime. The end.

We don't live in utopia. There are criminals. And mistakes happen.

So here's a big question
What happens if someone steals your identity card? What happens if there's an error on your identity? What happens if the system isn't functioning correctly?

How do you prove it wasn't you who did x, y or z?The computer says you did. The computer is always right. Your just a human and aren't trustworthy.

Hello Fujitsu Horizon System and the Post Office.

To give another recent example.
There was an example the other week on the BBC news where a guy got fined for parking his car because he'd been there for ten mins then moved and then a car (completely different type) parked in the same place but the number plate was one digit different.

He had a nightmare sorting the problem and demonstrating it wasn't his car. The computer said his car was there cos it read it's number plate - except it only read part of his number plate and didn't fully compare.

We assume that because it's on a computer it's correct. But the data is only as good as the information entered - which can include human error, human crime or database corruption because a programmer makes a human error (the simple example here is for whatever reason a spreadsheet number slips a line because there's a slight mistake, so all the subsequent values are out of line).

Technical issues with data based set up.
This does happen, especially when setting up new systems or transferring data from one system to another.

This is a crucial point of weakness.

One of the biggest issues traditional banks currently face is when their data is on an old system in an old programming language which is now defunct but they've been carrying on with old programmers patching it all together. But these programmers are becoming rarer and harder to find so inevitably the technology and personal issues is forcing transfer to newer systems. These transfers tend to happen at low usage points and usually happen without incident and are tested before it goes live to the public so you don't see it. But sometimes someone makes a massive cock up.

What we are talking about is transferring and merging data from several huge aging data bases into one larger modern one. And it will be done by idiots who really shouldn't do the job because the government has decided to do it on the cheap rather than pick a contractor who has the expertise to do it. Not only that but large parts of it probably will be outsourced to out of the UK (what could possibly go wrong with that in terms of security).

Now what might work in another European country who is either smaller or has had identity cards on a preexisting system for a long time might not be so easy to set up in 2025.

For starters we have one of the largest national populations in Europe with over 65million people. That's a bit different to say Sweden or even the Netherlands. And we are talking about merging multiple data sets - that's not something that Germany has to contend with because their system was set up so long ago and didn't have the same volume of data to deal with.

It's a LOT of information

Then your data will be held in a central place - possibly with inadequate security (cos they've tried to do it on the cheap). Meanwhile they've criminalised everyone who doesn't have an identity.

Then there's concerns about centralising full stop.

This makes this data base the absolute golden target for every damn criminal going. Your identity card is worth stealing. Your identity is worth stealing. If nothing works without this one central database (point of failure) then you increase your weakness to national security issues at a time when cyber security and warfare is being regarded as one of the biggest threats to the UK. Think about it - it's putting all your eggs into a single basket.

There are actually benefits to having your NHS details separate from your DVLA details and your passport details. If one is compromised you can still access / use your other ones. This protects you better as an individual citizen. It also makes your personal data less of a target in a lot of ways.

Keep in mind we are talking about state sanctioned computer crime being a rising thing.

There has been a lot in the news about how north Koreans have done this in various ways:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpdnz3elwzvo
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2l2yn5zmxo
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61474771
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce8vedz4yk7o
https://www.politico.com/news/2025/05/12/north-korea-remote-workers-us-tech-companies-00340208

The number of security checks you now have to go through to get a job at some companies is mad. And actually an ID card system wouldnt help because it's actually be too vulnerable and too weak. DH certainly had to give other forms of proof to confirm his employment history.

The danger in going to an ID card system is we become too reliant on it and assume it's right, then eliminate other documents etc and put it all into this one system. Thus weakening ourselves to tackling crime all whilst making this one system much more of a target.

This is also without considering the power it gives to a government - and the abuses that it could lead to. Who has access to that information? Who could misuse that information and in what ways. China is the obvious example of why this might not be a good thing. It's too easy to assume that we live in a democracy, nothing bad could happen. But we have human rights abuses by the state. This would make them easier to commit and harder to resolve.

The assumption that only 'bad people' might have issues is one that just doesn't hold weight based on real world examples and real world practical concern and considerations.

It's very naive to not consider these issues (and many more), because we have a simplistic understanding of the implications and the way it might be put together and operate.

Frankly, knowing enough about the experiences DH has had working at places which handle sensitive data / cyber security and the fecklessness and sometimes appalling management and terrible quality staff when outsourcing, combined with the governments track record on big database projects I have very little faith or confidence in the concept.

Nice idea, doomed to HS2 levels of success if it comes to fruition. Many because the people proposing it aren't technical and don't have a fucking c.
lue.

People just aren't understanding what the new form of id card means 🤦🏼‍♀️ people are thinking it's a great idea and don't even know that digital id is different. With the ever advancing ai to do all the correlation of the masses of resulting data, there'll be no part of our lives that are private. Then some twat will sell it on illegally or it'll be hacked.

The id cards are not going to be a crappy plastic thing with a fuzzy out of date photo on. It's not the 1980s. It'll contain absolutely everything about you. What you do, where you.go, who you talk to, for how long, your illnesses, abortions, psychiatric visits, your income and outgoings. Probably lots I've not even thought of.

Get people hooked on smartphones, then initiate this.

Agreed. The ministry of defence can't even prevent hacks and personal data getting into the wrong hands.

And additionally, that likelihood means breaches can be feigned when someone wants something leaked that they can't in other ways.
The impact/benefit of some leaks could make the insignificant fine worth paying

Also.. Like with any system - someone will eventually hack it and find a way to create counterfeits
The more 'robust' and trusted it's meant to be, the worse it'll be when it's breached

Big brother watch has a pretty solid argument against digital Id if you're interested

And you're a lunatic, quite frankly. 😁

BTW, the correct spelling is 'regime'.

And while I'm editing this post, there are no trackers in vaccines and 'Freeman of the Land' isn't a thing.

They seem to work perfectly well in other European democracies where privacy laws are stricter than in uk.

That's because they won't contain the breadth of information the future ones will hold. This is literally what I've been saying.

People who have legitimate concerns about digital id are not conspiracy theorists.

There's a difference between "legitimate" concerns and being outright bonkers!

Would you be happy with the government having direct access to your bank account?

Closing your bank account for having the wrong political beliefs?

Being accused of a crime you didn't do because of faulty facial recognition.

Losing your job for having the wrong political beliefs.

Having your medical information hacked?

Being prevented from accessing goods or services by the government.

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