National ID Cards

[Chakhakhan77]

Do you believe the government will bring them in? Keep seeing reports of this, freedom of speech slowly being taken away. Lots of videos of big crowds in city centres protesting about immigration. Are these AI videos? Are people/media exaggerating on the number of boats bringing people in? I don't know what is real anymore!

Unless you live a subsistence life off grid, have no passport or driving license, claim no benefits, pay no taxes, use no public services, use no banking facilities, the government knows everything about you that an ID card includes anyway. It’s just conspiracy-mongering that ID cards are in some way uniquely providing the means to “watch” you.

I want the cards so we can move on like other countries have and link up services. I think the trans debate has opened this up a lot too with people starting to realise a lot of sex offenders are using loopholes with gender ID to change their names and re-locate, for example.

So how exactly do you think they work /are being used to control? In a way that a passport or driving licence or other forms of ID don’t?

Deep down I think it boils down to “We don’t do this HERE.”.

The trouble is, people think it will be a magic wand that will solve all these problems overnight.

We have separate systems for passports, health services, schooling etc, but they don't talk to each other. Anyone who has dealt with more than one area of the NHS recently will know the frustration this can cause. Some parts of the NHS still use fax machines!

Bringing in an ID card is just a distraction, will cost billions and nothing will change much. ID cards can easily be faked or stolen so it won't do anything to stop illegal immigration.

If that is the aim then it would be more effective to start a biometric database, with ID cards, just for foreign migrants. Students, workers and those who arrive on rubber dinghies, all are recorded on arrival and put on the database. Illegals will likely give false names, but you will have biometric data if they are caught so it doesn't matter. If they are caught out later uskng a different name, that gives a reason to investigate further. Biometric data could be compared with records abroad.

If someone who has been previously deported turns up again, they can be identified and it will cut down appeals and processing time.

If someone is caught working when their student visa has expired, ditto.

If someone is not an asylum seeker but a wanted criminal, not so easy to hide. In fact maybe give Britain a miss.

If someone is not an asylum seeker but just someone from a perfectly safe country who is trying their chances, same thing.

Legal migrants who abide by the terms of their visas will have nothing to fear (isn't that what they keep telling us?) those doing wrong can be more easily traced and dealt with.

This would be far cheaper and more effective way of dealing with the migration problem than setting up a database for a population of 70 million people. DH has worked on many government IT projects, the problems are immense, as is the money wasted.

Bringing in an ID card is just a distraction, will cost billions and nothing will change much. ID cards can easily be faked or stolen so it won't do anything to stop illegal immigration

ID cards in my country have biometrics stored on them so they can't be easily faked or stolen.

Haven’t seen mine since about 1994

Nail on the head. If we're going to do it, we need to do it properly. The technology is there for biometrics and it's now tried and tested, so that's the future.

I think it would be a very good idea to introduce them. Many other countries have them and I don't see the problem with having them.

My home country has something similar - it's not a physical card but a national ID number which is used for pretty much everything, from banks to accessing medical care to using the library. It's very convenient if you have one and I can't see how it's invasive? Probably quite tricky being an illegal immigrant though.

I don't see how it relates to free speech though?

This.

I think it would solve many problems in the UK. No one would be able to moan about people getting things they are not entitled to as they either have an ID card that allows them to have the stuff, or not. Whether it's medical treatment, benefits, etc. much easier to keep track of a person, for sure, but only in the way that is good for the recipient and good for tax payers who don't want to pay out for people who are not entitled to receive.

Having lived in a few places that have them, I only see upsides and truly don't understand why the UK just doesn't introduce them asap. Climate migration will only increase in coming years so best they get it sorted now.

Also, and this is kind of an aside, although the OP is a little ranty so it's unclear exactly what you are asking, but the arrival of immigrants isn't necessarily the problem - that happens everywhere. A big part of the issue that that UK is experiencing is its failure to (1) track immigration (including when people leave the country which as far as I understand is NOT tracked, so at least some of illegal immigration is people arriving legitimately but never leaving again ) and (2) having a set up where it's fairly easy to be "illegitimate" and (3) failing to process them in good time. If you want to limit the negative impact of illegal immigration, that's where to start. The whole "people on small boats" is just high profile distraction.

I agree. I can't drive for medical reasons and would rather not carry my passport with me for ID

i simply cannot fathom why the UK is so against ID cards. Some of the best countries in Europe have them without problem.

A friend of mine moved to UK and was gobsmacked to have to produce things like Utility Bills to open a bank account. That is utter batshittery.

Lots of countries have ID cards, i have no issue with it and it would make a lot of people more comfortable for example you could ask to see a tradesman or cleaners ID card before letting them in your home and be sure you're dealing with who you think/paying a bank account with same name etc. I once had a cleaning lady trying to have me pay into her mother & daughters bank accounts basically to try and avoid tax!! Obviously i refused and got a new on.

carrying a passport for ID isn't always a complete picture though (hence, i guess, the utility bill bollocks). They don't have your address on them. In some car hire places it can be an issue if you don't have a biometric ID that includes your address.

I don't notice freedom of speech being curtailed in Sweden, NL, Germany, France or Spain. (well, not due to ID cards being present, anyway)

A few general observations and suggestions...

Most European Countries have an ID card and/or population register

This is because they have land borders which are easy to cross, by contrast we have relied on port control. How good this was is debatable and certainly it doesnt seem to work well now.

Then there is the Spike Milligan case, born to Irish parents at the time when the UK was under British rule and who was in the British Army in WW2 but told when he applied for a passport 'No'

We also have all the issues around 'Windrush' and of course successive Governments have imposed increasingly complex rules on landlords and employers requiring them to check the bona fides of their employees and tenants as well as a requirement to provide ID to vote.

Given that about 75% of the UK population possess a passport I would suggest that rolling out an ID card over - say a 10 year period would not be particularly difficult. It could also be issued when people claim Universal Credit because lots of ID Documentation is required for that.

As part of the roll out I propose that those legally in the UK shoud have the option of applying for UK Citizenship at no cost

I would also suggest that people born before a certain date would not be required to have an ID card but would be issued with one of they applied for a passport.

I had bank account elayed because utility company misspelled my name. 3 times I had to correct them!!!

Also DH had his residency card delivered to god knows who because ven THAT important letter just didn't require any ID.... It was a pita and costed us money

I’m from a country (Canada) where we had health cards. Why, well Honestly to prevent abuse of our universal health care system by Americans. Every time you go to a doctor or hospital the first thing you are asked is ‘health card please’ then it’s all free.

No one is bothered, no one cares and we just do it. It really isn’t a big deal to have or carry these cards.

One of the strongest Canadian values is fairness and it feels fair to be asked to prove that you are eligible for our free health care system. It also doesn’t feel fair that if people aren’t eligible that they can have that care for free (they would have to pay). It works.

I'm totally in favour of biometric ID cards - my passport expired a couple of years ago and I don't know if I'll renew, and I don't have a drivers license.

And you don't need all the databases to be linked to each other. You need one central population database that the others can access. My GP has no access to my financial information. And my ID card has a biometric chip and a PIN code.

Nah! It will be too expensive. The admin costs alone plus the cost of the cards. If it’s mandatory they have to justify costs and make it affordable to everyone

Facebook, Instagram, Tik Tok and Google already know soooo much about you. If anyone was going to be controlling, I'd worry more about them. ID cards are the quickest and most cost effective way to reduce crime and illegal immigration. How will the government use them to control you?

Thanks for highlighting all the positives and practical uses. I think its a no brainer!

I don’t think the public would be charged. If it helps with all kinds of admin and security, and possibly even deters people coming here illegally, it should be done.