National ID Cards

[Chakhakhan77]

Do you believe the government will bring them in? Keep seeing reports of this, freedom of speech slowly being taken away. Lots of videos of big crowds in city centres protesting about immigration. Are these AI videos? Are people/media exaggerating on the number of boats bringing people in? I don't know what is real anymore!

But the work load. A 100 people a day asking for a bus pass to almost 60 million people suddenly
asking for an ID card in a matter of weeks. Then from then on as kids hit 18. + renewals and I’ve lost my card requests.

Well it’s the same as if someone was to sell their Deliveroo account + picture of their ID (wouldn’t want to as they would get in to heaps of trouble when traced back to them), the code would also be linked back to their profile.

How is it going to do that?

As mentioned, it could be rolled out over a decade, rather than in one go, same way we don't all renew passports and driving licences st the same time - which are already linked; I have the same photo on both.

Of course there would be costs involved in setting it up, and running it, and an information campaign - but if well organised (and I recognise that's a huge if,) linking in to existing systems- passports, DVLA, HMRC and the NHS, it could build on numbers we already use and make things more streamlined. I'm quite in favour of not using bank statements and utility bills as ID.

I'm security cleared for work, so I assume the government already knows more about me than I do about myself. They know this is my MN account.

With regard to the nearest safe country issue. The rules are drawn up by international agreement, can’t see Spain, Italy, turkey or any other country agreeing to that as if places the burden on them.

Spot checks on businesses to check they’re not employing illegal immigrants and therefore avoiding tax, NI payments etc.

I think it’s peoples smart phones collecting our data and doing that.

So the mayor of my town popped to the market to buy something and saw two police officers harassing a stall holder and stepped in. Police turned on him and asked him for his ID - he had left it at home and spent the night in the cells

however, we share so much data now I don’t believe there are many arguments against them (other than police using it for bad reasons!!) and there are lots of positives in our modern world

in Kenya you have an online government account and you pay tax, buy relevant services, use it as ID etc etc. it makes life easier for sure

Great idea. Then the UK can charge and entrance fee to the thousands of tourists traipsing through the British Museum, National Gallery etc etc.
That would help.

I also don't understand the resistance to ID cards here. I seem to remember that it was mooted a few years ago (Blair gov't)? and was eventually dropped.
Personally, I would welcome an ID card - especially if it doubled up as a driving licence, ni number etc. DH and I no longer have valid passports as we no longer travel abroad. I have a photo driving licence, but DH still has the original paper one from where first moved to this address almost 40 years ago. The lack of photo id makes it difficult at times and whilst we have plenty of doctors, teachers, barristers in the family, they cannot endorse an application for a passport etc and our GP no longer does it. A national ID card would make it a lot easier for people like DH, as well as employers etc with the right to work information etc.
Passport office, DVLA and so on already have the mechanisms in place to issue ID cards and a staged rollout would spread the workload and the cost.

I think it comes down to the relationship with the state

the uk has a very different relationship - look at policing. Here it is policing by consent whereas in France and Germany it is policing by law - we own the state - it doesn’t own us

however, given modern technology and the amount of services etc done on line and that digital footprint I don’t think the old arguments hold so well

well, if the UK would be sensible, at the time you sign your contract, your employer is required to check your nationality/status, and you provide photo ID to prove it.

It really isn't rocket science. Every job i've ever had in an EU country has required me to show proof that i am allowed to work there.

I think the issue is that one person goes and registers and then their friends use their registration (it’s all done online anyway)

there’s been problems with uber because the driver isn’t the one insured or the one registered. Was a bit of a scandal with them trying to cover up the sexual assault stats

and same with deliveroo. I’ve had ‘Ben’ delivering and a woman showed up

it puts up a barrier though.

But all i see here is "weak excuse/reason it won't work - so we can't have it".

It will be sold to us as a convenience but it will absolutely evolve into some Chinese style social credit system. Once CBDCs and UBI is rolled out it will control where and what we spend. I sincerely believe this will happen sooner or later.

I think they are a good idea but they’re not a cure all

That’s because the public sector never has any money & goes for the cheaper option every single time.

if we invested in public services & funded them to go for the correct option & not the cheapest one it would probably work a lot better!

Yes, I think you are. You're watching way too many. And it is all cobblers, sorry.

If born here we are assigned an NHS number at birth, and sent an NI number at 16-ish. Link the two numbers and everyone already has a unique id. Just use that as a starting point.

Actually, I'd like a (much higher) barrier to illegal cheap labour trafficked in by criminals. I agree that the economic migrants are looking for a better life and might be solid citizens eventually, but there's no evidence of anything yet that suggests they add much to the fabric of the UK.

You can be monitored now if necessary. Most public sector agencies have information sharing protocols for fraud and criminal investigation purposes

The reason people are concerned is that they believe the ID will be eventually incorporated into a digital currency system and that any online criticism of the government or certain groups will result in the withholding of money or access to goods and services. It's a social credit system whereby people who are socially compliant will be able to live reasonably, but others will be punished. The problem comes when authoritarian governments or regimes crack down on political or other types of views or beliefs. Obviously life could become very uncomfortable under such a system.

For those saying it couldn't happen here or that digital currency won't come in, digital currency is already being planned and we've already seen how politics can quickly take a wrong turn.

Frame it as immigration control or crime prevention (some) people love the idea.

Frame it as a ‘papers please’ society or a ridiculously expensive venture which is open to data breaches and government overreach, not so much. Minorities tend to be more sceptical… can’t think why…

”Nothing to hide..? Nothing to worry about!”

So...
Is the uk government less trustworthy than most others or are people in other countries dummies for accepting having to have ID and some kind of totalitarian governments?

Or just dump the NI number and have the NHS number be the personal ID code for each person and link everything to it.