To think parents are more responsible for the relationship with an adult child?

[bendmeoverbackwards]

My oldest dd is 24 and our relationship is a bit strained. She was living away for university and is now back living at home with dd2 (22, also back home post graduation) and dd3 (18).

Dd1 has become quite distant and uncommunicative. She goes in and out to work without even a hello or goodbye. She is quite likely autistic but hasn’t as of yet looked into a diagnosis. If her behaviour is a result of possible autism, that’s absolutely fine but I’m worried.

A few months ago she was upset at the actions of Dh and I. We had booked a ballet performance for me, Dh and dd3 and didn’t ask her. She was very hurt and upset about this. I felt bad and sincerely apologised to her. Since then, there’s been a few other things that have upset her and I seem to be walking on eggshells a bit.

There has also been a long standing issue between dd1 and dd3. Dd3 developed an intense dislike for dd1 nearly 2 years ago and we don’t know why. Dh and I try and support both of them without getting involved but it’s hard when they both claim they’re being bullied.

I had a difficult relationship with my own mother who blamed both me and my sister for everything, and didn’t do much for nurturing the relationship. Maybe this has clouded my view but I always thought when I became a parent that the relationship with your child is paramount and it’s the parent’s responsibility to maintain it.

Dd2 also claims that her older sister is hard to live with saying she is passive aggressive, never apologises and seems to care only about our cat.

I feel so disconnected from dd1 and don’t know how to get it back.

Is it all my responsibility or do adult dc also have a part to play in their relationship with their parents? I keep reading about people going NC with their parents, they must have good reasons for this and I want to be the best parent I can be.

Pretty much stopped means it’s continuing.

Have you actually sanctioned DD3?

If you did, what did she do to get sanctions lifted?

If I lived in a house where people called me names and treated me the way your DD1 gets treated, I'd be aloof too. If she feels she's not yet ready to strike out on her own she may be biding her time till she can do that and then distance herself from the lot of you. I couldn't blame her, to be honest. I wouldn't jump to blaming ASD for her behaviour. ASD people aren't all aloof, many are very social and outgoing.

No, if hasn’t continued as of now.

@hadenoughnows it was the counsellor we saw who suggested that dd’s aloofness may be due to autism. She could be wrong though.

Dh and I have tried to re-connect with dd1 many many times over the past few months. We’ve taken a gentle approach and made it clear that we love her, we’re listening to her and if there is anything on her mind she wants to discuss. We’ve asked her outright if there is anything we have done to upset her because if there is, we want to try and put it right. She can see we’re taking steps with dd3, they may be small steps but it’s progress and there is clearly a lot more work to be done.

Even as a young child, it was hard to gauge dd1’s emotions. She seemed very self contained, just quietly getting on with her life. Dd1 had a severe dental phobia for many years. After taking her to many different professionals over the years, she finally managed to overcome it about 5 years ago when she wanted her teeth straightening. At her last appointment upon leaving the surgery with her beautiful straight teeth, she got all emotional as did I. Because we had travelled this journey together and I think she knew how much she was loved and cared for at that moment. I was so over the moon for her, I thought I’d never see her in a dentist’s chair again. Not sure why I’ve posted this, maybe as an example of how I do my best to support all my dc and try and meet their needs. It breaks my heart to think if she now feels let down by her parents.

@bendmeoverbackwards

I think you can know you are loved by your parent(s), but still know you are not a priority/are not being treated well or fairly/your needs are not going to be met or prioritised by them. You can know you are loved by your parent(s), and indeed love them in return, but have your trust in them shaken or something damage your relationship with one or both parents to the point where you feel it is safer/preferable/healthier to put some distance in your relationship or need/want to pull away. I think you may have to look at it from a different perspective- love sometimes is not enough to sustain a close, open and trusting relationship. I think that may be the case for you and your daughter. That damage doesn’t have to be permanent, though if left unrepaired, it could deepen and there is a risk of permanency.

I think if you thought her aloofness was all just down to ASD, and she is actually 100% ok, you would not have posted here. You would have accepted her assurances of being fine and left it there, It sounds like she has always been quiet and self-contained, but you and your DH also sense something has changed more recently- she has said she ‘doesn’t care anymore’ which is clearly trying to convey something to you. I am not sure exactly what that is- perhaps she sees the current situation as a lost cause, where no change will happen no matter what she does or says, so she has chosen to block herself off emotionally- I.e. she cares very much and is very hurt but believes that saying so will change nothing but if she is open about how she feels and those feelings are not dealt with fairly/addressed that would simply compound the hurt…. So she chooses just to keep you all at arms length (emotionally, at least). Or perhaps she just has got to the end of her patience with the situation and is so fed up she really genuinely does not care. I think the latter may actually be harder to come back from than the former.

If you do think there has been a change in your relationship with your DD1, rather than just her usual behaviour, I think this could be related to how she is treated- and allowed to be treated- at home. Look, there is no doubt she is unhappy by the way she is/has been treated by her sister given that she has told you she feels DD3’s behaviour is abusive. Behaviour which I recognise you are trying to address- but some of what you outlined sounds utterly abhorrent, and I also get the impression that this was tolerated/unchallenged and/or excused for a time. You still sound quite enmeshed and easily manipulated to her way of thinking, and significantly more critical of your DD1 whose behaviour is several magnitudes less harmful than her sisters. I get the light thing was petty (but I also hate unnecessary lights being on)- if it happened as DD3 says- and she probably can be difficult to live with if she is withdrawn and only wants to interact with the cat.

I don’t know how you fix it- not quickly, probably. Have you ever actually acknowledged how badly dd3 is treating her now, and has done in the past? Have you acknowledged that you got it wrong by allowing things to get to the point where dd3 thought it was not only an option to do that, but also that it was tolerated? And that you are trying to change it, but it will take time. If you haven’t, you should. Then you just have to keep making improvements and hope that your relationship can be rebuilt.

Absolutely agree with @jacks11 above. You and dh may think things are going well, but to dd1 you're still prioritising dd3 with the 'small steps' around addressing her abusive bullying behaviour.

@PamIsAVolleyballChamp I don’t know where you got the idea that Dh and I think things are ‘going well’. I am not in any denial about the situation which is what I want to address it and try and improve things.

@jacks11 thank you. To answer your last paragraph, yes we have acknowledged to dd1 how awful dd3’s behaviour is towards her and that she we have her back. The name calling has stopped but dd3 will still avoid her and says she isn’t ’safe’ around dd1. There was an incident a while back when dd3 claims that dd1 chased her with a knife. We spoke to dd1 about this, she said it was a fork not a knife, she didn’t chase her, but in frustration she made some stabbing motions at the side of her body. I wasn’t there so can’t tell for sure exactly what happened. Dd1 also made a comment to dd3 about her autism which dd3 is furious about.

Equally annoying if you want them off and someone else keeps turning them on.

I like a hall light on to sleep, husband can't sleep with the hall light on. I'm temporarily winning while the kids are small as they need the light of they need the toilet at night. Ongoing annoyance in our 18 years together. Neither of us are bullying just disagreeing, same with your daughters

Relationships are reciprocal. It has to go both ways and cannot work if only one of you is making the effort. I too have a fairly strained relationship with my mother and although I have not cut her off completely (though certain persons think I should), we rarely speak expect the occasional text to ask a question or keep her up-to-date on my many health issues. I have not visited her since new year and she came up and stayed little more than an hour to pick up my old car. I tried, really, I did, but most phone calls ended in her being annoyed and me in tears so it's better for my mental health like this. If you want a relationship, you need to sit your daughter down alone and really talk with her, she may be dealing with some stressful personal issues, but you won't know if she feels like she can't talk to you.

@bendmeoverbackwards
it is good you have apologised to your DD about what has happened. I think it’s also all well and good to say “we have your back” and are there for her- but she also needs to believe you and I can see why she might not necessarily do so. Now you have to show her with actions and not just words that what you say is true.

i’m not exonerating your eldest dd of any wrongdoing, but I do think it sounds like dd3 tends to get given the benefit of the doubt in many ways (over incidents that have happened, whether she supportive enough of your DH after his mother’s death) and perhaps you should treat her assertions with a little more scepticism unless presented with firm evidence.

@jacks11 we do try and also give the 2 older two the benefit of the doubt, turn a blind eye if dd1 is rude or ignores us.

I do wish I had clamped down on dd3’s behaviour a long time ago but I can’t turn the clock back now, I can only move forward.

One question - dd3 is very physically affectionate and seems to need a lot of reassurance that I love her. Sometimes when I hug her, I feel angry and resentful of the way she treats dd1 generally but because there isn’t a specific incident at that time, I don’t say anything. How would you deal with this? Shall I tell her I don’t like her behaviour towards her sister?

@bendmeoverbackwards

I think it is absolutely ok to have personal boundaries- just because your youngest wants a hug doesn’t mean she has to have one- so, if you don’t want anyone to hug you, it’s ok to say so. You can reassure her you love her without always having to give her exactly what she wants, when she wants it, every time. You have to start saying “you know that I love you very much, but I don’t really feel like hugging right now”. It might upset her at first, but she will learn to accept it. And it’s important for her to realise bodily autonomy applies to everyone. I probably wouldn’t say “Actually, I’m angry at the way you’ve treated x, so I don’t want a hug”- but I think it is ok to say “right now I don’t feel comfortable having a hug”. I think if you said the former, that might cause further resentment towards her sister as she would blame her (incorrectly) rather than seeing it as a result of her own behaviour.

I think it is also reasonable to let her know that the way she has been treating her sister (and her father, by the sounds of things) is not only an unacceptable way to treat anyone, it also upsets and hurts you. You’d also like her to stop it because it makes the atmosphere at home difficult for you (and the other family members). I’d make it clear that she doesn’t have to like her sister, but she does have to keep a civil tongue in her head and treat everyone in the household with respect and decency- you will not accept anything else. I would, for balance, tell all 3 of your daughters the sentiment in the last sentence.

I would also tell your youngest that you and her Dad are happy to listen to serious grievances but not petty squabbles, and once you’ve said your piece/made a decision then that’s an end to it- no more sending you screeds of “evidence” or explanation to try to get you to side with her. She needs to learn to respect the boundaries you set within your home- ASD or not.

OP, you sound like a lovely woman.
I reckon @jacks has given you several thousand £££ in brilliant psychologist advice there.

None of our children are perfect, however a highly qualified friend of mine mentioned years ago, that pandering to one child excessively, is a real shortcut to fxxk up a family, despite your best intentions.

Attention may fluctuate, but allowing one child to dictate the house is a breeding ground for terrible hurt, and feelings of exclusion in others.

I think you have been extraordinarily manipulated and played by DD3, over a very long period of time.
She knows EXACTLY what she is doing, and what she wants.

Her behaviour is truly dreadful.
Trying to correct this will not be easy, expect her to behave very poorly if she sees her control of you shift away from her.

Find the money for therapy to navigate this.
Stop discussing DD1 with DDD2, it is not good to do this.

Seek out a therapist or friend to confide in, or your husband.

I think your DD1 has every right to feel very hurt, isolated and abandoned.

I think she is understandably trying to protect herself.

Wishing you well. It's not easy!

I would also tell your youngest that you and her Dad are happy to listen to serious grievances but not petty squabbles, and once you’ve said your piece/made a decision then that’s an end to it- no more sending you screeds of “evidence” or explanation to try to get you to side with her. She needs to learn to respect the boundaries you set within your home- ASD or not.

This will be difficult because my perception of a serious grievance is very different to dd3’s. Dd1’s comment to dd3 by text some time ago is deemed to be ‘disgusting’ and ‘unforgivable’ by dd3. The comment was ‘all this drama and you can’t see you’re autistic?’ A bit of a snide comment but not terrible in my book.

@Knobbsa thank you. It’s very upsetting for me to have gone so badly wrong, my priority was to be a good mother. But no use dwelling on that now, I need positive action which I now have the strength to do.

It's a very rare parent that doesn't mess up.

My eldest has been a huge trial at times and still is.
I have fought very hard to not allow him to dominate our home, to the detriment of my health.

ASD is in the house, so I know the challenges.
All we can do is do our best.

When we know better, we can try and do better.
I try and fail, dust myself off, and try again.

I would kindly say, in this situation, your DD3 has had her days of getting her own way and now you need to focus on ignoring her manipulations and petty drama, and let your DD1 know that you see things and her importance, clearly, whilst you have time and she still lives with you.

I really wish you well.
Forgive yourself and move forward.
Guilt can be a waste of energy we really don't have as we age.

Then perhaps you have to be very clear with her when you perceive something as a petty squabble and when you see it as a more serious matter- and then be firm with her if she continues to press/push or hound you by sending lots of information to try to get you on-side. You can acknowledge that she feels angry/upset/offended/annoyed or hurt, whilst not necessarily agreeing with her thoughts or actions. “I see that dd1 saying x has annoyed you, but I don’t think it was meant that way/this is quite a minor thing so I’m not getting involved/I think you have got the wrong end of the stick/ I think you might be over-reacting a bit if you do y or say z”. If she persists just reiterate that you have given her your opinion and you don’t want to hear any more about it.

The bombarding you with messages, attachments/articles and going over and over a situation in an effort to get you to agree with her is highly manipulative (even if not a conscious plan but a response to not having your immediate agreement regarding her perception of any given situation). I think it is a form of bullying those around her, even if not consciously done or is genuinely the way she feels. She is entitled to her opinion, of course, but she is not entitled to badger you (or anyone else) into submission to get her own way. Your DD3 needs to learn that whilst she is entitled to an opinion, so is everyone else and she has to respect that even when she does not agree. She also has to learn to accept your decisions and move on, even when she does not agree.