Please? Or not

[IAmNeverThePerson]

Help solve an “discussion” between DH and the DC and I.

I (and the DC - 16 and 18) think that if you add please to a request that is adds optionality. So the person can say no. But if it is just a crack on and do it you shouldn’t say please. For example I would say to either DC. “DC pass me the salt” I wouldn’t say please but I would say thank you when they passed it.

DH thinks that is rude and you should always say please. We think that saying please is rude if the person shouldn’t say no.

what do you think?

I feel the same way as you! I get round this by saying ‘I’d be most grateful if you would…’ or ‘a response by X date would be much appreciated’

I would always say please and thank you if I asked someone to pass me something.

One thing I was taught by a health visitor when my children were young (we used to have them visit regularly in the 80’s), was say for instance, I wanted them to brush their teeth. I used to say please brush your teeth. She said that’s wrong as you are giving them the option. You should just say go and brush your teeth. It worked!!!

Of course you say please! If someone said to me “pass the salt” I would think them really rude

Also the “please” doesn’t make it a question. The word can or will makes it a question.

“can you pass me the salt?” - question

“please pass the salt” - polite demand

”pass the salt” - rude demand

so your logic makes zero grammatical sense.

@MinnieMountain I think excuse me always needs a please - but clearly what do I know 🤣

Ok to put the cat truly amount the pigeons:

what (or pardon) are your views on what vrs pardon?

I’ve always been team “what did you say I didn’t catch that”. Rather than “pardon”. Pardon is nails down a chalk board to me.

But as we are discovering I may not always be entirely correct…

Will it complicate matters too much to observe at this point in the thread, that polite manners when needing salt at the dinner table is “would you like salt?” to your neighbour. They would then pass it to you with a “No, would you?” All this “pass the salt please or not is like nails down a chalkboard to me.
As you were.

I think we all know ‘what’ is UC and ‘pardon’ is WC. This thread will likely now take a very different direction.

Honestly, do your kids a favour and say ‘Please’. I have a parent who didn’t use it as it doesn’t exist in their native language, and I still feel I’m a bit ruder than other English people, though I do my best to remember.

For what / pardon I say ‘sorry?’ And avoid the class connotations of the alternatives.

But your sentences aren't equal. Are you asking about:

"What?" versus "Paron?"
or
"What did you say? I didn't catch that?" versus (something like) "Pardon? I didn't catch that."

I would find either one word option a bit jarring. But fine with either longer option.

Ha! If class was a thing: DH is very very middle class and I am working class. So we are the other way round.

but I wasn’t asking about class I was asking how it sounds to you.

Rude not to say please when asking for something, or asking someone to do something for you. I'm with Team DH on this one.

It's one word, how hard is it to say? This is not a hill to die on, OP.

Always say please. It’s polite. And does NOT add optionality!

I think if it’s a casual family sitting around thing it’s not essential to say please. But like you I would say thanks. I can picture us now as we are sitting eating brunch at the table and I would indeed say ‘pass over the salt’, DD passes it over and I say ‘thanks’. Anyone else (outside immediate family) I would say please. (In fact we actually don’t ask at all but make a hand gesture and then say thanks).

What kind of hand gesture?!

I think “could” makes the tone less of an order.

So “could you take the bins out”? even without a please, sounds gentler and less of an order than “please take the bins out”

I say 'please' when asking stroppy prisoners to go behind their doors, or to hand me things i would prefer them not to have. It usually works, possibly because it is a situation where politeness itself is disarming.

I think it’s a little sad that you’re happy to be less polite to the people you purport to value the most in life. Team DH all the way!

What I find somewhat bizarre is whilst most posters have been polite, there is a non-negligible subset that have been reasonably unpleasant (or at least over emotive) whilst telling me that I am rude to my children.

Obviously in public we confirm to all social norms. But in our house “grab the pasta out the cupboard love” is not perceived rudely. I am never (in their terms) rude to my children - because surely it is their opinion that matters. We were having a discussion over dinner about the semantics of please/thank you, before DS2 segued into his standard anti-Trump monologue.

I was wondering how odd our view was - and the answer would appear to be reasonably.

To be fair I think you have been very even-handed and taken feedback on board - you asked a question out of curiosity and there's nothing wrong with that at all.

There's also been a subset of people insinuating that saying 'please' makes you starchy, confrontational or demanding, which is equally bizarre.

It is optional because it’s a request not a command, even when you ask a family member to pass you the salt. But in a decent family, other member will pass the salt because it’s a low effort ask, unless some genuine reasons for not doing so, in that case they will tell you. Please also remove the underlying sense of entitlement. It’s part of good, appreciative communication.

Teach your son to use please rather than instil this weird idea that by using please, the other side is less likely to fulfil a request.

Always say please here and I absolutely insist on my children saying it too

Edit - if my child said to me "mummy, pass the salt" I would not pass the salt. I would make them add please to the end.

Have been thinking if there is an instance where I wouldn't say thanks and the closest I can think is one of your examples. But I'd say a preemptive thank you.

So I'd say "can you pass the pasta love, thanks" which negates the need for the please?

But I'd never say "pass the salt" by itself. It would either be "pass the salt please" or "pass the salt, cheers"

It is optional. It’s the good manners of the other person, who does not do a mental gymnastics oh he used please, then it must be optional, then I am not moving arm. It’s not a big ask and most people do it without thinking about optional bit. But it always is optional. It’s a request, not a command.