Still think Two Tier justice does not exist?

[rubicustellitall]

Ricky Jones found not guilty..my flabber has never been so ghasted!
Anyone have any views..

That doesn't say the plan is for a complete phasing out of jury trials.

I come from a country that doesn't have jury trials. The system works. However, changing from one system to another isn't going to be straightforward, nor is a judge-only system of trial going to give everyone the outcomes they would like to see. Both systems have merits and drawbacks. Neither is a sacred cow.

It’s possibly for another thread - but I’ve argued for long time against a “jury of your peers”.

Reality is that 1000s of working people can be permanently exempted from jury duty owing to their occupation plus the idiosyncrasies of the law may be beyond the scope of a non-legally trained professional - so the jury can basically be folk on the dole and/or middle class retirees with nothing better to do with their time.

I think the legal system needs a complete overhaul- we’re no longer just worrying about folk stealing a couple of sheep!

No but alot of people have assumed that the govt will go worth the recommendations and as I said jury trial only really worked with the fairly homogenous, cohesive society we had before - other cultures have strong in-group preferences and no tradition of equality of races etc as Christian based societies have.

the jury can basically be folk on the dole and/or middle class retirees with nothing better to do with their time.

Neither group is incapable of understanding and evaluating evidence and coming to a sensible conclusion.

That's a recommendation, not an actual policy.

I am really glad that was deleted.

If you think Christian based societies have equality of the races, you're very naive. Christianity isn't a magic bullet against anything, it's just another oppressive belief system that the powerful have always manipulated to get what they want. All religions are like that. None are better than any other.

Well I'm a Christian so of course I think that. And don't agree with your false characterisation with no evidence whatsoever. I don't feel oppressed and think people were much more content and society was better when Christianity was strong. Now people are wandering around lost and lonely with no moral compass.

Perhaps you don't have a moral compass but no need to tar the rest of us.

And Christianity spent centuries perpetuating racism. Yes, it has moved away from that, but the after-effects are still very much felt in many countries.

The Catholic church has a very long history of antisemitism.

Just saying things without evidence doesn't make them true. The Bible specifically says all people are equal including women and that is where the equality in our laws comes from. This was very counter cultural for the time. Most countries whose laws weren't based on Christianoty don't have this and will discriminate against other races/religions (and women). See Tom Hollands Dominion book to find out more.

Is this another one of these satirical posts?

You don't seem to know much about the history of Christianity.

Doesn’t sound very equal to me.

Ephesians 5:22-33

22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

Indeed.

I'm familiar with Holland's work and I do think its fair to highlight the role that Christianity has had on Western philosophical thought and, accordingly, societies.

But its also hard to ignore that Christianity has seldom lived up to its own professed values. To pick one of many examples- try telling First Nations people here in Canada that Christianity believes in equality among races.

Normal people don't keep writing racist tweets before and after the Southport murders & during the following riot, Connelly did, she wrote many such tweets, over many months... this wasn't an isolated incident.

From the CPS
“The prosecution case included evidence which showed that racist tweets were sent out from Mrs Connolly’s X account both in the weeks and months before the Southport attacks – as well as in the days after

Messages to friends show that she planned to use her children to escape justice, but such was the overwhelming evidence, she pleaded guilty.

I suspect that had Connelly written just one such tweet, she would have been advised very differently.

Jones had a jury trial, for him to be found guilty the threshold of "Beyond reasonable doubt" has to be reached... in this case 12 ordinary people found him Not Guilty

As for having "the book thrown at her" the evidence is that she wrote that book herself.

I do tend to agree that we are coming to a point when juries may be biased and will go down the jury selection route of the US - which is obviously horribly costly and rather defeats the object in the first place.

I mentioned OJ Simpson earlier - I would be interested in posters’ views here. People might like to remember that there were murdered victims in this case.

I'm old enough to remember some of those good old days - when women were shamed and put in institutions run by nuns for getting pregnant, when beating and raping your wife was legal, when divorce made women outcasts, when it was fine to have signs saying 'no dogs, no blacks, no Irish' when you ran lodgings. Ah yes, those were the golden times.

And it isn't just Christianity I was slating - it was all religion. Religion is just another thing that divides us. Back to the topic - do you really think that black defendants didn't and still don't get a harder rise from (mostly white) juries? Because if that's what you think, you're shockingly naive. Look at what goes on in the US.

If people genuinely feel like her sentence was fine, and don’t understand why people are angry, then that’s them.

These will be the same people scratching their heads when reform are elected.

Quite. I have an excellent moral compass. The idea that you need to be a Christian (or religious at all) to have a good moral compass is arrogance at Olympic level.

I saw this on another thread. I think Grieve sums it up nicely.

You've been presented with the sentencing guideline and the reasons why she received the sentence for which she pleaded guilty. People are angry because she's been selected as a martyr and they are ignorant of the facts. That seems to be a common denominator with Reform voters.

I know, I know. Criticising Reform voters means they'll vote Reform.

I wonder if Connolly had tweeted she wanted a mob to come round and burn down their houses, they would feel quite so angry at her sentence?

I think Reform may well win in 2029 or least be the largest party but it will be because Farage is a great communicator, the Tories are still focused on Labour, seemingly not realising Reform will see the end of the Con party..... & because Labour will have failed to deliver on things like X ch migration, Dentistry, Roads, NHS/GPs.

It wont be because a nasty racist woman got what she deserved, after pleading guilty.

But 4 years is a long time, in 2021, Labour were 20pts behind the Tories, Labour have enough time to turn this around.

Lucy Connolly plead guilty. Ricky jones plead not guilty and went to trial.

Support for reform has increased massively.

Why do you think that is?

If it was just reform voters voting reform, you’d think it would have always been as high?

Calling people ignorant misses the point.

People don’t feel the law is being applied consistently.

Labour doesn’t acknowledge this, and that’s why their support is tanking.