Still think Two Tier justice does not exist?

[rubicustellitall]

Ricky Jones found not guilty..my flabber has never been so ghasted!
Anyone have any views..

The bail does seem to be the most intriguing factor, being held on remand is always going to impact pleadings and more importantly legal advice. The two cases seperate more due bail conditions than the outcomes.

Yes, it was. (My image is under review, it was a screenshot from this article https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/credz9gl92yo)

So you would acquit someone of murder even if you thought they were guilty because you wouldn't want the thought of them being given the death penalty on your conscience.

What if because of you they were acquitted and once free went on to kill another person. Would you be able to live with that on your conscience?

Edited for spelling.

It must be annoying for people when the facts get in the way of their narrative.

But Connolly was only in custody for less than a month before pleading guilty. Maybe she’d have been let out on bail at some point if it had gone to a trial months later?

My little understanding is that the general principle is to approve bail unless it can be shown remand is appropriate.

However the guidelines are clearly a load of bollocks, as despite the entire world + dog knowing Julien Assange was going to skip bail, the judge hearing the case could find "no reason" not to grant it. And we all know how that ended.

Doesn't time served on remand come off your sentence ? Maybe that was a factor in the LC case ?

Quite possibly. My post was to contradict the post that said he wasn't held in custody.

I don’t recall that, but just looked it up and can clearly see that the met released a statement saying he was initially remanded.

But he didn’t stay remanded until his trial though, which she did.

I just can’t see the justification for him being granted bail, and her not.

My opinion is still that they threw the book at her, to make an example statement, and that they did so for polical reasons.

My son had someone threaten him with a knife, and they were bailed the next day.
It just pisses me off

If this is directed at me, then it doesn’t piss me off at all. I don’t have a ‘narrative’.

The main point of mine was that he was granted bail , whereas she wasn’t, so they were not treated equitably. I can’t see what reason she was denied it, especially as personal experience of people being granted bail for far more, who were well known to police

Yup.

Ask the jurors who convicted Timothy Evans, only to learn that after he was hanged, the real killer (John Christie) went on to kill again and again what they thought.

She did not stay in custody until her trial, she didn’t have a trial. She stayed in custody until she pled guilty, which was less than a month. He was remanded in custody initially, just as she was, and then let out on bail at some point later on (I can’t find any news articles on this but can find something mentioning him being out on bail at the end of October, so a couple of months after being initially remanded, but not sure of his actual release date). And then had a trial.

You’re making it sound like they both had a few months before a trial during which time he was out and she was in custody. There’s no evidence she wouldn’t also have been let out on bail a couple of months later like he was, if she’d ended up going to trial.

ETA - I do think he sounds like a horrible man, and I’m not at all defending his comments.

Really? Why would one get bail not the other?

I know she didn’t have a trial, I meant she was denied bail, then entered a guilty plea.
He was granted bail.

I’m not sure what we’re disagreeing about tbh.

If that is true, then why didn't he inform the police straight away when he became aware of it. Presumably he was the train and saw this?

"If you are the wife of a Conservative councillor in the UK and post online rhetorically that you don’t care if something bad happens to asylum hotels, you go to prison for 31 months for encouraging violence after a rushed trial"

"If you are a serving Labour councillor who literally tells people in person to slit the throats of protestors you disagree with"

Neither of things happened though.

Why would that be? I thought you had to be pretty risky to not get bail

Sorry, just read this properly.
She had already been denied bail twice, both before her plea.

I guess we’ll never know, because she pleaded guilty (which was potentially a bad move, but had she been found guilty in trial could potentially have been an even longer sentence)

Her sentence was very harsh for a first time offence, that’s all. Which makes me believe it was politically motivated to send a message/be a deterrent to others

They were both denied bail.

Then in the month or two that followed:
She pled guilty fairly quickly.
He did not, and was released on bail to await trial.

If she hadn’t pled guilty, she may well have ended up in the same position as him - being granted bail after initially being denied it.

You usually do, like I said my son was punched and threatened with a knife, and the guy was bailed the next day. He had previous as long as your arm as well 🙄

It just doesn’t make sense to me

Two tier chat GPT innit

Oh yes, her sentence was definitely to make a point/be a deterrent. You can look at the stats for sentences following the 2011 riots and the 2024 ones - harsher sentences in the immediate aftermath.

But I assume all still within sentencing guidelines.

And I agree her sentence seems very harsh when you compare it to, for example, Hugh Edwards and others convicted of similar crimes. People think he was given leniency because of who he was, but depressingly that is just the typical sentence.

She was there for a couple of months, and denied bail twice.
He was granted bail.

do you think it likely she would have been granted it on the third try?
Theres no record of him being denied bail? Looks like he was initially remanded, but never denied bail?

Her sentence was very harsh for a first time offence, that’s all. Which makes me believe it was politically motivated to send a message/be a deterrent to others

You mean the sentence was outside the guidelines ?

Looks like he was remanded initially, then granted bail?
He was never refused bail, and she was twice?

That is an artefact of large numbers though. Any average around a population will always produce some outliers.

In fact if they didn't you'd know someone was fiddling the data.

A lot of people forget that the concept of justice isn't all about them. That's what makes it justice, not vengeance.

i'd rather live in a country that is trying to do justice than a country where it's everyone dishes out whatever they feel they can get away with. That's hell on earth.