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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Still think Two Tier justice does not exist?

1000 replies

rubicustellitall · 15/08/2025 15:00

Ricky Jones found not guilty..my flabber has never been so ghasted!
Anyone have any views..

OP posts:
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25
Butyouneverasked · 18/08/2025 21:53

pointythings · 18/08/2025 21:42

No, because they have been explained ad nauseam. Different crime, different sentencing criteria. different choice of judicial process involved. Let this sink in: pleading guilty means you will be sentenced. And a judge has to follow sentencing guidelines. The max for what Connolly was charged with is 7 years. There's literally nothing at all to wonder about.

You can say you don't like the law and its outcomes, but that does not mean it has been incorrectly or inequitably applied.

"Then the law is an ass"

MiloMinderbinder925 · 18/08/2025 21:54

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 21:38

I believe in common sense and when I see women saying another woman should be jailed for 2 and a half years when there aren't enough prisons to take convicted paedophiles like Hugh Edwards ( and others) along with all sorts of other scum yeah it disgusts me. Maybe I'm old fashioned and think child abuse is worse than a tweet. It's the "law" though so we shouldn't question it apparently.

No one has actually said that Connolly is worse than a paedophile. You're really scraping the barrel and the utter bilge about women...

TinyIsMyNewt · 18/08/2025 21:54

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 21:46

She may be a scumbag, but you have actually said the crime Jones has committed is LESS serious. It's insanity which you know deep down so you have to delve into outdated laws to justify your position. Real life crimes are more serious than tweets to most people walking the streets but the police agree with you which is why you're more likely to be arrested for words on twitter than actual crime these days. No one is saying Connolly is a nice person but what she did isn't close to Jones yet he's down the boozer tonight

I'm not delving into laws to argue why one was more serious than the other - I'm pointing out that real-world violence (including an attempt to burn down a hotel full of asylum seekers) actually arose - suggesting that Connolly's tweet (and many others) did incite violence.

On the other hand, nobody who heard Jones's words actually committed any violence, suggesting that nobody actually understood it to be an actual call for violence.

That people know the locations of hotels housing asylum seekers, but nobody knows who the NF members who hid the switch blades (the group about whom Jones was speaking) were, nor their locations, meant that violence against them was not actually possible.

Also - typing out a message on social media requires more forethought than off-the-cuff spoken comments.

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 21:54

pointythings · 18/08/2025 21:49

She may be a scumbag, but you have actually said the crime Jones has committed is LESS serious.

Because according to the law as it stands, it is.

Don't like the law? Start a petition for change. And do please answer the question I asked in my pp.

" The law , the law". Please stop using the law as a guide of what's morally right or wrong. We need laws but presumably you agree Hugh Edwards should be in prison - what happened to your precious law then? We can question things on here without being told to " start a petition".

LakieLady · 18/08/2025 21:55

ForOpalZebra · 18/08/2025 17:37

If the guidelines are years in prison for a deleted tweet and letting off a labour councillor for death threats in person, they need to change

Jones wasn't "let off", he was found not guilty by a jury of his peers - all 12 of them.

Are you suggesting that we should do away with jury trials? Or that judges should be allowed to overturn a jury verdict if the outcome is an unpopular one?

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 21:57

TinyIsMyNewt · 18/08/2025 21:54

I'm not delving into laws to argue why one was more serious than the other - I'm pointing out that real-world violence (including an attempt to burn down a hotel full of asylum seekers) actually arose - suggesting that Connolly's tweet (and many others) did incite violence.

On the other hand, nobody who heard Jones's words actually committed any violence, suggesting that nobody actually understood it to be an actual call for violence.

That people know the locations of hotels housing asylum seekers, but nobody knows who the NF members who hid the switch blades (the group about whom Jones was speaking) were, nor their locations, meant that violence against them was not actually possible.

Also - typing out a message on social media requires more forethought than off-the-cuff spoken comments.

Once again, if in 2 years someone views Jones' speech of inciting murder and acts on it seeing a youtube clip or whatever, should he then be re arrested - what's the difference? You say typing a tweet out takes more thought than speaking to an audience with an " off the cuff comment" which included him slitting his throat gesture. Don't be utterly ridiculous

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 21:59

MiloMinderbinder925 · 18/08/2025 21:54

No one has actually said that Connolly is worse than a paedophile. You're really scraping the barrel and the utter bilge about women...

I'm attacking the law, you're suggesting a tweeter should be in jail for years defending the law but when people like Hugh Edwards is mentioned suddenly the law isn't so great is it. Use common sense not what antiquated laws who let paedophiles roam the streets say

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 18/08/2025 21:59

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 21:50

Virtually every post I've seen from you is strawman so what's good for the goose. In your world 2 and a half years prison for a tweet is appropriate - you're in a minority.

You obviously haven't read many of my posts. Please read them. You might actually learn something. Wink

And no, LC didn't get two and a half years "for a tweet". She got two and a half years for inciting racial hatred. Perhaps I am in a minority for thinking that inciting racial hatred is wrong. If I am, so be it.

By all means, campaign to change the law to make it legal for people to incite racial hatred if you think that's important. Stand up for what you believe in. I will carry on arguing against you and people like you for as long as I have breath in my body.

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 22:01

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 18/08/2025 21:59

You obviously haven't read many of my posts. Please read them. You might actually learn something. Wink

And no, LC didn't get two and a half years "for a tweet". She got two and a half years for inciting racial hatred. Perhaps I am in a minority for thinking that inciting racial hatred is wrong. If I am, so be it.

By all means, campaign to change the law to make it legal for people to incite racial hatred if you think that's important. Stand up for what you believe in. I will carry on arguing against you and people like you for as long as I have breath in my body.

She got 2 and a half years for a tweet which was a tweet of saying she didn't care if migrant hotels burnt down. You can shoehorn it into whatever daft term you like but that's what she was jailed for - a tweet. Compare that with Jones

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 22:03

TinyIsMyNewt · 18/08/2025 21:47

How do you feel about people sharing CSAM online, vs in-person?

Or emailing a death threat, vs sending my mail?

I think you're making too much of the "it's only the internet" angle, particularly given how quickly and widely social media posts can be shared.

I do agree that some crimes, including ones you mention, have sentences that are too light compared to others. It is not morally justifiable but more a reflection on our failure to build sufficient prisons.

A death threat via email is clearly wrong but it's not as serious as turning up to your front door in person with a knife saying it now is it.

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 22:04

SerendipityJane · 18/08/2025 21:37

Golly ! This is just like O level Eng. Lit !

It's English language actually

TinyIsMyNewt · 18/08/2025 22:08

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 21:57

Once again, if in 2 years someone views Jones' speech of inciting murder and acts on it seeing a youtube clip or whatever, should he then be re arrested - what's the difference? You say typing a tweet out takes more thought than speaking to an audience with an " off the cuff comment" which included him slitting his throat gesture. Don't be utterly ridiculous

Of course writing something generally requires more forethought than speaking or gesturing, I'm amazed that anyone would argue otherwise.

If someone watches a clip of Jones in 2 years time, and it did incite violence, the potentially guilty party would be the one still publishing the clip at that time, not Jones.

For someone who thinks "common sense" should replace laws, you're not demonstrating much of it.

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 22:08

Anyway as I haven't received the supposed "other tweets " Lucy was jailed for we can conclude this was more nonsense. There needs to be a very high bar for jail regarding social media posts or should be which involve literally organising terrorist activity, specific targeted harassment towards an individual etc not ignorant generic comments about not caring if migrant hotels burn.

MiloMinderbinder925 · 18/08/2025 22:10

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 21:59

I'm attacking the law, you're suggesting a tweeter should be in jail for years defending the law but when people like Hugh Edwards is mentioned suddenly the law isn't so great is it. Use common sense not what antiquated laws who let paedophiles roam the streets say

The two cases aren't remotely related so stop trying to derail the thread. Stop dismissing the charges Connolly pleaded guilty to: inciting racial hatred and endangering life. 300k saw her tweet and there was a Lucy Connolly hashtag doing the rounds. A few days later people tried to set light to occupied buildings. She wasn't just a "tweeter".

If I dismissed Jones, who was found innocent, of just saying "stuff" - I doubt you'd agree.

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 22:12

TinyIsMyNewt · 18/08/2025 22:08

Of course writing something generally requires more forethought than speaking or gesturing, I'm amazed that anyone would argue otherwise.

If someone watches a clip of Jones in 2 years time, and it did incite violence, the potentially guilty party would be the one still publishing the clip at that time, not Jones.

For someone who thinks "common sense" should replace laws, you're not demonstrating much of it.

Well it takes me less than 30 seconds to write a post on here, a tweet takes me less than seconds. Judging by how long it takes your replies to arrive, it takes you longer as most people write tweets very quickly - not you obviously which is fair enough but please don't generalise. You realise twitter isn't writing out a cv for a job application I presume?

Regarding your second point of " The guilty party would be the person publishing the speech of Jones" are you saying that a news station or random youtube channel would be guilty and not Jones himself. What's anyone supposed to say to that 😅

PandoraSocks · 18/08/2025 22:12

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 21:41

Her tweet was made after some hotels were burnt or she wouldn't have used the eg in the first place. Unless she turned up herself or was commander of an army it's irrelevant anyway. If you said " drop dead moron" and I killed myself, I wouldn't expect you to be arrested. People take responsibility for actions in real life not because a tweet said " for all I care".

Nope.

The tweet was made on the evening of 29 July, which was the day of the Southport murders.

The violence didn't begin to break out until the next day. July 30th.

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 22:15

MiloMinderbinder925 · 18/08/2025 22:10

The two cases aren't remotely related so stop trying to derail the thread. Stop dismissing the charges Connolly pleaded guilty to: inciting racial hatred and endangering life. 300k saw her tweet and there was a Lucy Connolly hashtag doing the rounds. A few days later people tried to set light to occupied buildings. She wasn't just a "tweeter".

If I dismissed Jones, who was found innocent, of just saying "stuff" - I doubt you'd agree.

I'm not derailing the thread. Jones literally called on people to have their throats slit at the same time as Connolly tweeted apathy to hotels burning and got 2 and a half years. I mention Edwards to illustrate how disgusting the precious law is that so many are defending which is putting children and women in danger. The law is not the holy grail and should be held up to scrutiny

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 18/08/2025 22:15

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 22:01

She got 2 and a half years for a tweet which was a tweet of saying she didn't care if migrant hotels burnt down. You can shoehorn it into whatever daft term you like but that's what she was jailed for - a tweet. Compare that with Jones

I do compare it with Jones. Both of them were inciting violence imo, and both behaved reprehensibly. The apathy argument doesn't wash - LC's intention was self evident and she herself admitted it.

Tweeting is not a crime and people don't go to jail for it. However, rather like a speech or a broadcast, it is a means of publishing content that can be shared with large audiences. LC was not jailed because she tweeted but because of the content of the tweets that she shared with a large audience at a particularly volatile time. You can try to twist it if you want, but the clear intent of her post was not to express apathy but to encourage people to set fire to buildings that were housing lots of innocent people.

I'm really sorry that you think "inciting racial hatred" is a daft term. I don't agree at all. If we can't even agree that inciting racial hatred is wrong, then I guess there is nothing more to say. You've made your position clear.

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 22:18

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 18/08/2025 22:15

I do compare it with Jones. Both of them were inciting violence imo, and both behaved reprehensibly. The apathy argument doesn't wash - LC's intention was self evident and she herself admitted it.

Tweeting is not a crime and people don't go to jail for it. However, rather like a speech or a broadcast, it is a means of publishing content that can be shared with large audiences. LC was not jailed because she tweeted but because of the content of the tweets that she shared with a large audience at a particularly volatile time. You can try to twist it if you want, but the clear intent of her post was not to express apathy but to encourage people to set fire to buildings that were housing lots of innocent people.

I'm really sorry that you think "inciting racial hatred" is a daft term. I don't agree at all. If we can't even agree that inciting racial hatred is wrong, then I guess there is nothing more to say. You've made your position clear.

Do you believe Jones should have been jailed?

BIossomtoes · 18/08/2025 22:18

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 21:59

I'm attacking the law, you're suggesting a tweeter should be in jail for years defending the law but when people like Hugh Edwards is mentioned suddenly the law isn't so great is it. Use common sense not what antiquated laws who let paedophiles roam the streets say

Edwards’ sentence was also within proscribed guidance. Do you want to get rid of law and order altogether and just have some free for all based on public opinion?

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 22:21

LakieLady · 18/08/2025 21:55

Jones wasn't "let off", he was found not guilty by a jury of his peers - all 12 of them.

Are you suggesting that we should do away with jury trials? Or that judges should be allowed to overturn a jury verdict if the outcome is an unpopular one?

Yes I think the idea that 12 randoms with no IQ tests or tests on basic comprehension can decide a person's culpability is absurd. Many have bias ( left and right) where the law of the land should be blind to politics, race , religion etc. I think it's fundamentally flawed

TinyIsMyNewt · 18/08/2025 22:22

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 22:03

A death threat via email is clearly wrong but it's not as serious as turning up to your front door in person with a knife saying it now is it.

No - it isn't, but that isn't what I asked. I asked email vs mail.

But - even if we accepted that Jones's was seriously advocating for throats to be slit - the risk of violence from his comments was lesser despite being spoken in-person.

Even ignoring that Connolly's words were spoken during civil unrest re. asylum seekers (meaning the risk of violence was far more imminent) - nobody could have acted on Jones's "incitement" because the persons he was apparently advocating violence against are anonymous, and their locations unknown.

And, to be honest, if people are going to stash switchblades in public places, so that they can be used to stab people - I don't think saying "they should be stabbed" is all that heinous. It's a big like calling for a murderer to be hung. Yeah, its not a clever thing to say, but I don't know why you think it so gravely serious (in comparison to suggesting burning down hotels full of asylum seekers because a UK-born child of asylum seekers committed a crime).

BIossomtoes · 18/08/2025 22:22

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 22:21

Yes I think the idea that 12 randoms with no IQ tests or tests on basic comprehension can decide a person's culpability is absurd. Many have bias ( left and right) where the law of the land should be blind to politics, race , religion etc. I think it's fundamentally flawed

What do you suggest instead?

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 22:23

BIossomtoes · 18/08/2025 22:18

Edwards’ sentence was also within proscribed guidance. Do you want to get rid of law and order altogether and just have some free for all based on public opinion?

Ignorant post suggesting I want to get rid of law and order because I think a paedophile should be locked up as it wasn't following the "guidance" as you put it. Maybe the prescribed ( not proscribed) guidance should change which is basically what I'm saying across the board.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 18/08/2025 22:24

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 22:18

Do you believe Jones should have been jailed?

On the basis of what I know, yes. I've already made that clear on this thread. But I haven't looked at the evidence that was presented to the jury so there may be reasons for them having found him not guilty that I am unaware of.

Regardless, I accept that he was found "not guilty" by a jury of his peers. What I think - with my limited knowledge of the case from the news and the Internet - is irrelevant.

If Lucy Connolly's case had gone to trial and they had found her "not guilty", then I would have accepted that verdict too.

You either accept the principle of jury trials or you don't. Like any model, there are pros and cons to trials by jury. For the time being, it is the system that we've got.

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