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Still think Two Tier justice does not exist?

1000 replies

rubicustellitall · 15/08/2025 15:00

Ricky Jones found not guilty..my flabber has never been so ghasted!
Anyone have any views..

OP posts:
Thread gallery
25
LakieLady · 18/08/2025 22:24

BigFatLiar · 18/08/2025 20:39

It's one of the problems of jury trial, juries can ignore the evidence and vote how they feel. So if he had a majority of people on the jury who shared his views he may have been let off irrespective of the evidence.

The jury verdict was a unanimous one. I think the chances of finding 12 people who are all minded to ignore the evidence are pretty slim, tbh.

The Independent did a good explanatory piece:

MiloMinderbinder925 · 18/08/2025 22:25

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 22:15

I'm not derailing the thread. Jones literally called on people to have their throats slit at the same time as Connolly tweeted apathy to hotels burning and got 2 and a half years. I mention Edwards to illustrate how disgusting the precious law is that so many are defending which is putting children and women in danger. The law is not the holy grail and should be held up to scrutiny

Connolly pleaded guilty and has never denied that she intended to incite racial hatred. Therefore she wasn't apathetic. You keep repeating the same thing and you know it's not true.

You've brought in Edwards to derail the thread.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 18/08/2025 22:26

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 22:21

Yes I think the idea that 12 randoms with no IQ tests or tests on basic comprehension can decide a person's culpability is absurd. Many have bias ( left and right) where the law of the land should be blind to politics, race , religion etc. I think it's fundamentally flawed

That's a valid opinion. But if you replace the jury with judges, you will still end up with some verdicts that you might not agree with.

TinyIsMyNewt · 18/08/2025 22:26

BIossomtoes · 18/08/2025 22:22

What do you suggest instead?

The obvious alternative is to have judges/magistrates determine guilt. That said, BeLilacExpert thinks that lawmakers and the courts are mishandling cases too, so who knows what they have in mind...

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 22:26

BIossomtoes · 18/08/2025 22:22

What do you suggest instead?

A collection of educated people using common sense with meritocracy bars to get over enabling them to sentence people like Hugh Edwards to longer terms than people tweeting about not caring about migrant hotels would be a start. Less tradition and faff of " Your honour" and more application of something approaching justice in the 21st century where it doesn't take months/years for people to get sentenced ( unless you tweet something and get sentenced in days) which we currently have.

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 22:27

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 18/08/2025 22:26

That's a valid opinion. But if you replace the jury with judges, you will still end up with some verdicts that you might not agree with.

Yes that's a fair point

BIossomtoes · 18/08/2025 22:28

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 22:26

A collection of educated people using common sense with meritocracy bars to get over enabling them to sentence people like Hugh Edwards to longer terms than people tweeting about not caring about migrant hotels would be a start. Less tradition and faff of " Your honour" and more application of something approaching justice in the 21st century where it doesn't take months/years for people to get sentenced ( unless you tweet something and get sentenced in days) which we currently have.

That’s word salad. What’s a “meritocracy bar”?

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 22:31

MiloMinderbinder925 · 18/08/2025 22:25

Connolly pleaded guilty and has never denied that she intended to incite racial hatred. Therefore she wasn't apathetic. You keep repeating the same thing and you know it's not true.

You've brought in Edwards to derail the thread.

No I haven't , Edwards is a classic case of portraying how ridiculous the law is. Who knows why she pleaded guilty - low IQ, duress, crap legal advice. I'm sure people will be along soon to say that it's because she was guilty etc etc - she was guilty of a tasteless tweet saying she didn't care if migrant hotels burn. In any event, I'm tired and have said what I wanted to say. I shall bid you all good evening

HRTQueen · 18/08/2025 22:31

It absolutely does not exist

those who can afford a good legal team

and those who cannot (they may on occasion still get a good legal time but usually over worked underpaid legal team that are stretched with the work they take on)

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 22:32

BIossomtoes · 18/08/2025 22:28

That’s word salad. What’s a “meritocracy bar”?

Iq tests, comprehension exams - google meritocracy. It means qualifications to sit on a jury, not randoms like Shazza down at number 22 with a tattoo of "MOM" on her ankle or Big Barry with a tattoo of an anchor on his forearm slower than a geriatric slug suffering heart failure.

BIossomtoes · 18/08/2025 22:34

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 22:32

Iq tests, comprehension exams - google meritocracy. It means qualifications to sit on a jury, not randoms like Shazza down at number 22 with a tattoo of "MOM" on her ankle or Big Barry with a tattoo of an anchor on his forearm slower than a geriatric slug suffering heart failure.

I know what meritocracy means, thank you. Clearly you don’t.

MiloMinderbinder925 · 18/08/2025 22:34

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 22:31

No I haven't , Edwards is a classic case of portraying how ridiculous the law is. Who knows why she pleaded guilty - low IQ, duress, crap legal advice. I'm sure people will be along soon to say that it's because she was guilty etc etc - she was guilty of a tasteless tweet saying she didn't care if migrant hotels burn. In any event, I'm tired and have said what I wanted to say. I shall bid you all good evening

Connolly pleaded guilty to the charge proving she wasn't apathetic. She has never denied the charge. There is no evidence proving she was badly advised and the appeal found she wasn't, plus she pleaded willingly. She pleaded guilty because she was.

Edwards has nothing to do with this thread, start one on him.

LakieLady · 18/08/2025 22:43

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 22:21

Yes I think the idea that 12 randoms with no IQ tests or tests on basic comprehension can decide a person's culpability is absurd. Many have bias ( left and right) where the law of the land should be blind to politics, race , religion etc. I think it's fundamentally flawed

So you think that 12 people, selected at random to serve on that particular jury from a larger group, also selected at random, all just happened to be biased in favour of Jones?

Someone with a better grasp of probability than me could probably work out the odds of that happening, but I'd bet they're very long odds.

MiloMinderbinder925 · 18/08/2025 22:45

LakieLady · 18/08/2025 22:43

So you think that 12 people, selected at random to serve on that particular jury from a larger group, also selected at random, all just happened to be biased in favour of Jones?

Someone with a better grasp of probability than me could probably work out the odds of that happening, but I'd bet they're very long odds.

Edited

If you believe in conspiracies, anything is possible I suppose.

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 22:50

Not really a conspiracy is it. I mean look at this thread, 2/3rds of voters agree with the Op/me that 2 tier justice exists and this evening I must have had close to a dozen people attacking my view that what Jones did was worse than Connolly and none saying otherwise. I'd say it was very likely at any given juncture a dozen people would have a skewered view of things as it's a small number. Many people are like sheep, we saw that during covid and it happens with juries with a few dominant members influencing others. It's a ridiculous system

BIossomtoes · 18/08/2025 22:52

The jury system is 900 years old. Nothing lasts as long as that if it’s ridiculous.

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 22:53

BIossomtoes · 18/08/2025 22:52

The jury system is 900 years old. Nothing lasts as long as that if it’s ridiculous.

What like religion you mean?

BIossomtoes · 18/08/2025 22:55

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 22:53

What like religion you mean?

Now who’s being ridiculous?

MiloMinderbinder925 · 18/08/2025 22:56

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 22:50

Not really a conspiracy is it. I mean look at this thread, 2/3rds of voters agree with the Op/me that 2 tier justice exists and this evening I must have had close to a dozen people attacking my view that what Jones did was worse than Connolly and none saying otherwise. I'd say it was very likely at any given juncture a dozen people would have a skewered view of things as it's a small number. Many people are like sheep, we saw that during covid and it happens with juries with a few dominant members influencing others. It's a ridiculous system

Like you they're focused on criticising things they haven't thought through. Like you want to get rid off trial by jury and want people judged by an elite section of society such as judges and barristers. You think that''s a meritocracy!

Bahhhh

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 22:56

BIossomtoes · 18/08/2025 22:55

Now who’s being ridiculous?

You, you just said "nothing lasts 900 if it is ridiculous". I've given you one eg to destroy your silly point

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 22:58

MiloMinderbinder925 · 18/08/2025 22:56

Like you they're focused on criticising things they haven't thought through. Like you want to get rid off trial by jury and want people judged by an elite section of society such as judges and barristers. You think that''s a meritocracy!

Bahhhh

yeah I think people should be judged by people with a decent Iq not Dave down the pub. It would still be flawed but nothing like what it currently is

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 18/08/2025 22:59

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 22:50

Not really a conspiracy is it. I mean look at this thread, 2/3rds of voters agree with the Op/me that 2 tier justice exists and this evening I must have had close to a dozen people attacking my view that what Jones did was worse than Connolly and none saying otherwise. I'd say it was very likely at any given juncture a dozen people would have a skewered view of things as it's a small number. Many people are like sheep, we saw that during covid and it happens with juries with a few dominant members influencing others. It's a ridiculous system

Yes, most people are like sheep. I think that's why the poll show 2/3 agreeing with the OP...it's pretty easy to click on something without really engaging with the arguments.

It's notable that the people who are sufficiently informed and/or interested to actually post on the thread skew slightly differently.

I guess that tells its own story.

MiloMinderbinder925 · 18/08/2025 23:01

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 22:58

yeah I think people should be judged by people with a decent Iq not Dave down the pub. It would still be flawed but nothing like what it currently is

Exactly. You don't want a selection of society, all walks of life and multivaried experiences, you want a tiny section of professionals who are typically very conservative and from privileged backgrounds. Sounds great.

BeLilacExpert · 18/08/2025 23:01

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 18/08/2025 22:59

Yes, most people are like sheep. I think that's why the poll show 2/3 agreeing with the OP...it's pretty easy to click on something without really engaging with the arguments.

It's notable that the people who are sufficiently informed and/or interested to actually post on the thread skew slightly differently.

I guess that tells its own story.

Randoms on mumsnet identifying as "informed" doesn't make it the case now does it. Away from here, most written articles disagree with you and are far more indepth than some of the "experts" here

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