About Gender neutral loo

[paulhollywoodshairgel]

I was in a museum today and my daughter (15) left me to go to the loo. She then waved me over.. she said to me.. I’d rather not use the gender neutral loo. I said that’s fine and sent her down a level to the ladies. A woman the approached me and preceded to tell me off for not encouraging my daughter to use the GN loo. How she has a trans child and how are they ever going to feel accepted with people like me around. I’m ND and I always second guess myself 10000 times a day. I wasn’t in the wrong was I?? I just said ok go and use the other separate loo. Surely my child can pee wherever she feels comfortable??!! I hate conflict so I just said ok and walked off!

it is the consequences of that observation i.e. growing up in a male or female body and the physical and social differences between males and females. It's not an observation like ohh she's got grandads chin, it's has consequences.

Right! And this is the central contradiction at the heart of gender critical feminism. Your reasoning here is slipping into classic gender/ sex essentialism- that everything about men and women , and their (different) experience , is a direct/ inevitable consequence of observable and dichotomous biological differences. This is a harmful simplism and antithetical to the rights , autonomy and equality for women and girls as well as gender non conforming people.

that everything about men and women , and their (different) experience , is a direct/ inevitable consequence of biological differences.

Um..... it is. That's what you don't understand. Women are oppressed based on our sex and biological differences, and our rights are based on our sex and biological differences. To deny this very fact, is batshit delusional. It is sex essentialism by NATURE and by FACT. You mean you haven't realised that yet.

Ha ha why do you think women are oppressed by men the world over if not because of biology? Do you think that since the beginning of recorded time men have dominated women because of high heels (even when they didn't exist or were worn by men)?

I reserve expressions of decency for those who deserve it. I value the truth above all other things, & have no time for men & their allies who are disrespectful of women’s sex based rights.

Ive seen and heard disgusting behaviour on the part of men claiming to be women, & their supporters. They deserve no courtesy or ‘kindness.’ I couldn’t care less what the rainbow brigade think of my hurty words.

A man pretending to be a woman telling a female rape survivor to reframe her trauma. That & multiple other outrageous statements & lies meant any courtesy went straight in the bin. Offended? Good.

Also, there may well be men who identify as women who are ok not to invade women’s spaces, but unless they actively stick up for women against the misogynist wing (who I perceive as the majority) of their “rights” movement, they are not feminist allies.

Tandora has one ‘argument’ :

They’re women cause they say they are.

That’s it, nothing more. Lots of links to nonsense & ‘big words’ strung together. It really is a monumental waste of time.

So are you agreeing males with a trans identity should be excluded from female spaces on the basis of sex? Awesome! We are in total agreement.

I think you're really seeing what you want to see here tbh. A recognition that amongst women there will be varying needs and experience based on race, disability, sexuality and age is intended to give protections for these characteristics in addition to those afforded to them because their sex is female. In no instance does the recognition of their additional protected characteristic exclude them from being considered for the protections afforded to women as a whole.
TW have not been recognised as a subset of women who have been afforded additional protections because they are trans as well as women. Their protections for being trans are additional protections compared with other men who are not trans.
The trans people who have additional protections as a subset of women are transmen.

Who ordered the word salad? It wasn't mine, can we send it back? 😂

And yes Tandora I understood what you said, I just don't think it was worth the time it took to post.

I don’t think you understand feminism.

As I said to the poster above: taking something says and completely re-writing it to suit your own purpose and then declaring that to be its meaning is highly manipulative behaviour.

I’m not sure why you have such a problem with people using words that are more than two syllables.

Trans people deserve to be treated with basic decency. It is not disgusting to be trans and to ask people to respect that.

Because of patriarchy. If you suggest it’s an inevitable result of/ determined directly by biology you are naturalising inequality , female inferiority and oppression of women.

I'm fine with polysyllabic words thank you, as stated before I think you just string those words together in such a way as to attempt to convince people of your "intelligence" but it doesn't work.

Clearly you are an intelligent person. but when you use your intelligence to support such a ludicrous men's rights movement, it becomes apparent very quickly that intelligent or not, you are talking out of your bum.

None of your arguments stand up when faced with logic, the conflict with women's rights, reality, and now (as clarified by the SC) the law.

You can make out that I and other posters are just too stupid to understand you, but you're wrong and no one is buying it.

🤣🤣🤣
this thread has proved to be so entertaining !!
thanks Cohen 👏👏

So why do you think it is always a patriarchy? Not 50% of places /times women oppressing men instead?

Hint because women (as a class) are smaller, weaker and slower than men and carry and birth children.

The role of feminism/civilised society is neutralise male advantage and counter act that inequally. We still have some way to go. I don't regard women as inferior but I do recognise that they are biologically different to men and that this is often to the detriment of women (as a class).

What sensible argument could there possibly be to giving men unfettered access to women and girls in previously single sex spaces, many of which the women and girls will be vulnerable in or possibly in various states of undress, just because those men say they have special feelings in their heads?

Who was it that said this is a predators paradise? @ThatBlackCat or @NeverOneBiscuit I think, and they were right.

And an inability to RTFT to see examples and evidence make your comment uninformed and extremely rude and belittling

Have some manners please

Yet you clearly are not aware of this growing trend or you wouldn’t be posting that it is nonsense
So again
inform yourself before making spurious claims

look at the news and the harm spy cameras cause women
Those who belittle this gross behaviour are part of the problem

We all have a right to dignity and privacy
Knowledge is everything

But did you not say :
However, one thing that differentiates trans women from women who are not trans, is sex observed/ registered at birth. It’s ok to recognise this difference, and in fact, may be important in some circumstances that we do. This is no different from other differences between women that it’s sometimes important to recognise, such as disability, ethnicity, age, etc. just as there are separate provisions in the EA for these axes of difference / diversity, it’s not unreasonable, per se, to suggest that there should be a separate provision in the EA that recognises “birth sex” as an axis of difference/ diversity,

So as TW are male then you are saying that it important to recognise this difference and therefore males should be excluded from female spaces. I mean. Would you support an able bodied woman entering the paralympics? If not, why not?

Amazing that as soon as I posted today Spiralling bounded in with a comment attacking one of mine
Are you sitting in the bedroom with Tandora
🥴 me thinks so

Men claiming to be women (so men) who use or insist on the right to use women’s single sex spaces do not deserve respect.

No decent man, even if he had some internal spangly feeling of being a woman (not possible) would use the spaces provided for females. They just wouldn’t. They’d use the male facilities or mixed sex.

Single sex spaces exist because women learnt, the hard way, over the years that there will always be men who want to transgress their boundaries. A man putting a skirt on & coming into female spaces doesn’t make him ‘one of us’. On the contrary, it makes him one of them - exactly the kind of man who needs to hear the word No.

And if that hurts men’s feelings - tough! Single sex spaces are provided on the basis of sex, not tinkly internal feels that nobody has the right to insist others validate.

What you don’t get Tandora is that I, & many others, don’t see a sacred caste. We don’t see poor vulnerable men who have a feeling of being a woman (just like they don’t have a feeling of being a table, or a hamster).

We see reality, blokes - AGPs, transvestites, ultra feminine presenting men, misogynists, bad actors etc. I couldn’t care less what they say or think about themselves, crack on. What matters is their immutable sex where it impinges on MY sex as a woman.

You can post your well rehearsed ‘facts’ all you like, they are fantastic at showing up the complete fairytale that is the trans movement. Keep going.