What do you think of this ultimatum from Fiance?

[Pladi]

Fiancé and I met in our mid 20s in London. He is Norwegian. I have always been completely upfront that I would never even contemplate living in Norway. Not even Oslo. I must have made this clear from around the 2nd month of dating. Fiancé accepted that as he hated growing up in a fairly small town anyway.

Since becoming engaged fiancé has requested that we live in Oslo for a year after we marry. Just as an experience. I have said absolutely bloody not. There’s a long list of reasons why I wouldn’t consider this. Fiancé is “confused” as I did spend 18 months in Seattle for work. But Seattle (where I speak the language and am somewhat familiar with the culture) is a very different proposition to Oslo.

Im not happy that he’s changing the goal posts despite the fact I have never been anything but brutally transparent.

Ideally we would live in London for a couple more years then make the move to the burbs.

I’m not being unreasonable, am I?

Not all foreigners are homing pigeons.

Issuing any ultimatum is an unreasonable way of trying to resolve differences imo.

The reasonable thing to do is to have a discussion and try and find a compromise that you can both accept.

Of course it is but my point is that there are some good reasons to decide to live in Norway and it’s not too far to return for visit family and friends.

If you read my original comment you will see.

I expect he thought he could quash down his desire to live in his home country. Or perhaps that feeling as just grown stronger as he's got older and feels more settled in life he's looking further into the future and realising the extent of never living there again. It's making him reconsider things. Regardless, you labelling that as "manipulative" is just ludicrous. You're out of order using that language to describe his request. By doing that you're waving your own red flag at him.

No-one defending him has responded to my question of if your answer would be the same if he was from Saudi.

That’s because they don’t like admitting the hypocrisy.

I think Norway is lovely but I would absolutely hate to live there. I hate the dark and cold and wet. It makes me feel awful. When it rains here, I am miserable. Winters are really tough. I stay because of other things but, frankly, I’m sorely tempted to move somewhere with better weather. I would hate living in Oslo - I don’t care how good every other thing is, it doesn’t matter to me, I know I’d be miserable. That’s no less valid that someone who doesn’t want to live in Texas or Saudi Arabia - and PP have actually said that they only think OP is BU because it’s Norway!

The fiancé can change his mind all he wants but acting like OP is wrong for not changing hers or for bending her clearly established boundary is indefensible. Not to mention, the snakey and cowardly attempt to make it OP’s choice to end the relationship when it’s actually his choice.

Swap out “move to Oslo” with “do anal” and watch every single answer change to OP’s side.

I am Scottish. I moved to London for work, where I met my husband, who comes from just outside London.

I knew he would never want to move to Scotland and I accepted that.

Sometimes you cant always get everything you want.

Sounds to me like he misses home and wants to go back, If that's the case I don't see how the relationship will work as it will always be on his mind to go back, you say you'd miss your family, he likely misses his and wants to be able to see them, seems like you're only thinking about how you feel in this situation and not about how he also feels, I think it's probably for the best to split and you live here and he goes back home as its obviously on his mind and I can't see how he can stay here long term if he's always thinking about home

I knew he would never want to move to Scotland and I accepted that.

Ah, but you're not from paradise aka Scandinavia - that changes everything!

In all seriousness I moved to the UK from another country and it wouldn't have crossed my mind to start badgering DH to move there.

I agree if you move to another place it’s not automatic that you take the person back. It was an initial decision and the other person has to be keen.

Funny that.

I'm quite interested in everyone saying OP is BU for not speaking Norwegian well enough to feel comfortable living there for a year. It's really hard, even if you have some facility for languages.

I speak a couple of European languages to around B1, maybe lower B2 level which required a lot of effort and money over multiple years (not just a bit of Duolingo) to get to, and I still don't feel anywhere near confident in those languages even after living in each place for 6-12mo+. It's one thing to be able to do your groceries but even the most basic conversation in the pub requires fast paced listening in noisy environments to people with accents who are making cultural references and in-jokes you don't get - this is before any desires to work or have deep conversations etc.

Obviously immersion helps but it requires very active effort and for the language learning to be the "project" that you consciously work on, and being willing to go through a long time where you don't understand anything and limit yourself to conversations a child would have (i.e. if you ask people not to speak English around you).

That can be rewarding if it's the project you are passionate about. It's difficult cultural friction constantly in everything around you, even in that case. Let alone OP's where she doesn't want to do it.

he wouldn’t be asking his girlfriend to move to Saudi for a year, wouldn’t they already have to be married ?

a year or two to get as much money tax free, without having any children, I’d think about it

People are also ignoring that you can be fluent in a language and still not be able to integrate natively. I speak a language fluently and when I lived abroad, I still couldn’t build relationships properly or in the same way as I could build them in English.

I don't necessarily think OP should move to Norway, she'll be miserable but so will he staying in the UK when his heart isn't in it. I can definitely see the appeal of Oslo over a London suburb though, in a way I couldn't see the appeal of Saudi over a London suburb. Of course the place matters, I wouldn't choose Mogadishu over Geneva or Islamabad over Vancouver. Choosing a place with better quality of life (Norway), especially when you are entering the phase of having children, isn't rocket science. Either way, they need to break up now before either one gets too resentful.

I agree with this. They probably both are at a stage in their lives when they're realising family is important and it's one thing to explore the world when you're young but at some point it helps to have roots and connections and a village and shared cultural values. Which do vary between European countries, even if the differences aren't as stark as to China/Saudi etc!

I don't think you are being unreasonable at all; unfortunately though, him saying/doing this has changed the relationship forever because one of you will get their own way and the other will resent it.

I think it is deal breaker territory. The country is irrelevant really. You have to be fair lived there for a month and hated it, so you aren't making a blind decision.

The only way I can see this working is either a long distance relationship where fiance eventually decides that he is happy to live here permanently and never brings it up again; or you split up, he goes back to Norway to live and then realises he is happy to live here permanently and never bring up again; or, you split permanently.

Sad situation for you to be in OP and I feel for you really. Neither of you are particularly in the wrong either, which makes it more difficult to accept as a deal breaker. There is no compromise to be had really, unless you both agree to move to a 3rd country so you can both be equally unhappy, which would obviously be ridiculous.

I've just read up a bit about living in Norway and tbh im not seeing this utopia that others are. It sounds very expensive to live for a start.

Well it's not if you are on a Norwegian salary. Norwegian people are far welthier than British people. Child poverty rate in the UK is 31% and in Norway it's 6.7% for example. Norway has an excellent welfare system. The two countries are really not comparable.

Or, if both of you have come to realise that you don’t want to live outside your home countries, you might have to accept that spending the rest of your lives together is not going to be possible.

Salaries might be higher but taxes are higher, col generally higher, everything higher by the looks of it. Seems the main factors that makes it a nice place to live are work life balance and nature.

Some interesting results coming up when researching child poverty in Norway.

I agree. Also, you need to pass language exams in order to be granted residency, which as a spouse living there, OP will need at some point. Most Scandinavians do speak fluent English, but they don't like it if you live there and don't speak it. Not understanding the flow of conversations and daily life around you can make you feel rather isolated, not to mention that navigating any sort of of bureacracy requires knowledge of the language to navigate rules, forms etc. If not you become dependent on the native spouse to do everything for you, which again is isolating and can lead to stressful dynamics. Norway is a rich country and quality of life is high, but one should not be blind to the challenges faced by immigrant spouses, whose visa is dependent on the native spouse, especially when they do not speak the language.

@Megifer hush now, it's utopia. Everyone on MN knows that!

Regardless it is a much richer country with more natural resources and richer inhabitants. They make more money, they spend more money, they are left with more money.