What do you think of this ultimatum from Fiance?

[Pladi]

Fiancé and I met in our mid 20s in London. He is Norwegian. I have always been completely upfront that I would never even contemplate living in Norway. Not even Oslo. I must have made this clear from around the 2nd month of dating. Fiancé accepted that as he hated growing up in a fairly small town anyway.

Since becoming engaged fiancé has requested that we live in Oslo for a year after we marry. Just as an experience. I have said absolutely bloody not. There’s a long list of reasons why I wouldn’t consider this. Fiancé is “confused” as I did spend 18 months in Seattle for work. But Seattle (where I speak the language and am somewhat familiar with the culture) is a very different proposition to Oslo.

Im not happy that he’s changing the goal posts despite the fact I have never been anything but brutally transparent.

Ideally we would live in London for a couple more years then make the move to the burbs.

I’m not being unreasonable, am I?

😊

Sounds like you don't have children yet? Tbf if it were me, I'd probably go, if it were really important to him, although I agree it sounds like a ball ache. I can understand why he wants you to understand his culture more deeply, and you can presumably come back yo the UK for long weekends to visit your family etc. Or would he compromise with a six month stay? It's not over-the-counter course of a lifetime, after all.

You say you're worried he won't want to move back? If he doesn't, that's a different kettle of fish, as clearly your life goals are incompatible - but will you know for sure without trying? And if you don't try, will you always be wondering? Only you can answer that. I do sympathise though - I wouldn't be chomping at the bit to do a big move, and then a big move back again x

It very much feels like he’s going to get you pregnant and then keep you there.

With your family set up I totally get why it’s a flat no. stay strong.

OP needs to end the relationship. They will never see eye to eye.

And there's no need to paint the fiance some kind of a villain. He wants to go back to Norway and he has changed his mind in the past 6 years. She didn't want to go to Norway 6 years ago and she doesn't now. Neither of them is wrong. This relationship is not going to last so probably best call time now.

It sounds as if he’s being very mature by having this conversation before getting married and/or having children. It’s easy to imagine a different thread where someone asks ‘how do I get out of it now I have 3 kids…?’

But it also shows how we’re losing the ability to have nuanced discussions. Life isn’t black and white. Yes OP has been upfront from the start, and I can understand perhaps feeling betrayed now, but at the same time she has made little effort to learn his language or culture, which he might reasonably have expected her to do. Similarly, people do change over time - are any of us exactly the same as we were 6 years ago? I’m certainly not. And the UK now is significantly more anti-foreigner than 6 years ago, so I can understand why someone in his position might be feeling different about it.

Ultimately, they need to have a full-and-frank discussion to see if there’s a way forward. But people do grow apart, so if not, there’s absolutely no shame in calling it a day.

If it helps, personally I’d go for a year - before marriage - and see how it goes, setting a fixed date now to review.

Not what you asked, but I think YABU not to learn Norwegian, especially if you plan to have kids. It's better for children to have their parents speak in their mother tongues - so English from you and Norwegian from him. It would also give your child a 'free' language and a leg up when learning others. Do you plan to not understand what your DH is saying to your own children? You don't have to become fluent, just learn enough to understand it when spoken.

Maybe he's missing his family and friends?

I don't know if you're unreasonable, but you're silly not to have expected it.

This will be exactly what will happen.

I guarantee you he has someone in his ear about this, whether it’s his family or friends back home, who are probably telling him it’s the manly thing for the wife to uproot to Oslo etc so his ego is hurt that you’re saying no.

You made it very clear from the start that you’d never move to Norway- whatever your reasons, you set a boundary which he accepted. You’re well within your right to stick to that boundary, moving to another country against your will is no joke.

It’s funny that the reactions on MN are very different on this situation depending on the country. There was one relating to eastern Europe which got very different reactions. Yes, Norway is a lovely country- but she doesn’t want to live there and made it clear from the start. It’s still a man trying to push a young woman to move away from her support network to a country where she doesn’t speak the native language.

You are being unreasonable for not thinking people can change their minds. Fiance obviously thought you could.

I would be agreeing to two years, either now or when your children are under five years old. It could be a wonderful experience to show the children their roots of half their family and immerse them in language etc.

Setting boundaries of time and moving there temporarily, after making a property purchase in the UK, would settle my worry about DH staying there.

Correct. And he's not remotely confused, he just wants you to do what he wants, I hate that sort of disingenous use of language, it's bollocks.

He's the one being unfair and unreasonable by pretending he thinks you are when you were absolutely upfront and clear about this from the start.

Sounds like he won't stop trying to coerce you into this though, so maybe time to move on if you are really set on not going to Oslo. If he's already threatened to dump you over it, time to end the relationship.

Don't move there just to try it as you'll probably never get him shifted again and then you will be without your own support and back up. There was a woman on here a few weeks ago who had been coerced into moving to a town somewhere in the middle of nowhere that she absolutely hated so he could be near his mum. He was saying he would move next year, next year. 7 years later, I think it was, he admitted he'd no plans to leave and she had to pack up everything and start from scratch again.

Absolutely not. Uprooting your life isn’t something to do because you’re being guilt tripped. OP had a hard boundary and that should have been respected. I would feel betrayed if I progressed a new relationship, and worked towards getting married based on a frank, mutual understanding of what our life together would look like, only for him to significantly shift the goalposts like this. Had he been honest upfront that moving countries was a desirable outcome for him at the start, OP could have made the informed decision to end the relationship and invest time in someone else instead.

Agree totally.

I will say that he may have meant it at the time and changed his mind over time - and that's fine, we all have a right to change our minds.

But what is not fine is him trying to coercively guilt trip the OP over it and pretend he's confused when he is absolutely not confused, he just wants her to give in to his coercion. And it's not fine that he thinks she should just smash down the clear boundary she set at the very beginning because now he has changed his mind.

He's not wrong to change his mind, no, people do.

He is wrong to pretend to be confused, and he's wrong to imply she's being unfair and reasonable in order to try to coerce her into doing something she said a flat no to right at the start and numerous times since then.

I don’t really understand why you want to get married to someone from another culture / country and have very little interest in experiencing their culture. But you expect him to ‘live in the burbs’. You don’t sound compatible. I can understand not wanting to make it permanent but a year in another European country would surely be a bit of an adventure?!

Anyway, you are right not to give in to this, at all, since you are quite sure you never want to live there and have made that abundantly clear from the start. And you will just have to break up with him as he's obviously changed his mind and won't let it go. Such is life, unfortunately.

I do think you're being a bit unreasonable. Yes, you were clear about this upfront, but he's not asking you to move there permanently. He's asking for you to spend a year there. It's one thing to put your foot down after two months of dating. It's another to essentially say to someone you've committed to marry that you are so inflexible and you think so little of his preferences that you can't even commit to 12 months away.

I would definitely do this pre-children though.

Maybe you find Norwegians blunt and judgemental because you're English, and the English prevaricate about bloody everything? Maybe they seem judgemental because you are not hiding your judgement of them and their culture as well as you think you are?

If someone talked about my country the way you talk about your fiance's home country I would reconsider the relationship too, no matter whether I wanted to move there or not.

You think it's unreasonable of the OP to do exactly what she clearly and unequivocally stated she would always do? Or you think it is unreasonable of the OP to be a woman who says no to a man? Or you think because you personally would like to go there or wouldn't mind that she is unreasonable for having different feelings to you?

There is no way to market this as her being unreasonable, I'm afraid. He's allowed to change his mind, she is allowed to stick to what they decided very clearly 6 years ago.

I kind of agree with this - people have a strong pull to their own country and if you marry international you have to - well, be a bit international.

Depends on whether he’s a keeper or not, really. If you don’t like his family and can’t be bothered to build that relationship then maybe there’s no future in it anyway, marriage being the joining of two families and all.

I don't think either of you are being unreasonable. People are allowed to change their mind about the really big things in life – and him wanting to return to live in his home nation after years abroad is a big thing. Yes, you were clear at the start you'd never contemplate living in Oslo but we all know what it can be like when we're in the throes of a new romance and are so smitten we'll ignore the red flags.

Clearly there is no compromise to be had, given how unbending you sound on the matter. It might be worth considering though that everything you think about living Oslo is possibly how he feels about the UK – fish out of water etc. But if I were your fiancé I don't think I continue being with someone who is so scathing about where I'm from. I can't see how you get past this – you need to give the ring back and move on.