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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Are the old meanings of the words woman and man redundant?

135 replies

Thadthimes · 13/08/2025 06:15

Various dictionary definitions seem
to have made the words woman and man redundant.

In short.

woman = XX chromosomes, adult human female (including extremely rare cases of other chromosomal configurations but always without the SRY genes)

woman = XY chromosomes, adult human male (including extremely rare cases of other chromosomal configurations but always with the SRY gene) but believe and feels they are XX and all the associated characteristics of an adult human female.

man = XY chromosomes, adult human male (including extremely rare cases of other chromosomal configurations but always with the SRY gene)

man = XX chromosomes, adult human female (including extremely rare cases of other chromosomal configurations but always without the SRY genes) but believe and feel they are XY.

If this was a venn diagram I’m not sure it would work.

AIBU to think we just need new words for the old biological meanings of these categories to save confusion?

OP posts:
AlexandraLeaving · 13/08/2025 14:03

MushMonster · 13/08/2025 13:01

Oh my, it is assigned by the doctor! After observing the baby. Now, in 99.9....% that is the sex of the baby.
And nope, sex is not fully determined at conception (only). But it starts around the sixth week of pregnancy. If all goes well, it matches the genetic XX or XY. Look it up, it is really fascinating. Default human is female, by the way.
The term assigned itself is not wrong. No need to really argue about it. Have a look at Southampton Children Hospital on sex assignment in newborn babies.

No one can change sex, anyway.

Oh my! The word 'assigned' really is the wrong word to use, as many of us have pointed out.

You're right that no-one can change sex though.

Locutus2000 · 13/08/2025 14:09

Thadthimes · 13/08/2025 07:01

Don’t trans people prefer to be referred to as just woman and accepted as actual Women

You can't be this naive and I think you are on a wind-up.

SparklyGlitterballs · 13/08/2025 14:10

When it comes to “trans women are women” this should be borne in mind…

Are the old meanings of the words woman and man redundant?
Locutus2000 · 13/08/2025 14:10

Thadthimes · 13/08/2025 14:01

In what way is a transgender woman a woman? I mean someone with XY chromosomes who says they are a trans woman, what makes her a woman trans or other prefix?

This is called sea-lioning.

PencilsInSpace · 13/08/2025 15:00

MushMonster · 13/08/2025 11:25

But.. the official term is assigned at birth.
There is no need to correct assigned at birth whatsoever.

The only people whose sex was ever 'assigned at birth' were a tiny subgroup of people with DSD who were born with truly ambiguous genitalia in the days before genetic testing and other medical advances enabled doctors to work out what sex these babies actually were and what condition they had.

In these circumstances the doctor would 'assign' the baby as either male or female. This 'assignment' generally went along with traumatic, non-consensual 'corrective' surgery to make the baby's genitals more closely match the category to which they had been assigned. Most were 'assigned' female because it's easier to surgically remove something than to construct something.

Those were the bad old days.

The current usage is not 'the official term' it's TRA propaganda. It's designed to make people think that sex is arbitrary or a spectrum or in some other way not clear cut or not important. It's yet another example of TRAs appropriating the experience of people with DSDs for their own ends - something they've been doing since at least the early 1940s.

TheEyesOfLucyJordon · 13/08/2025 15:04

MushMonster · 13/08/2025 11:36

As far as I know, yes, it is the official term for all of us. We all get a sex assigned at birth.
Most of us never thinks twice about it.

Well, it's clear that you know less than fuck all then.

PencilsInSpace · 13/08/2025 15:11

spannasaurus · 13/08/2025 13:05

Sex is determined at conception. The default sex of a foetus is not female. The reproductive structures are undifferentiated for first six weeks but the foetus is still male or female.

This.

Also there wasn't a doctor at the birth of either of my DC. There was a midwife but she didn't come with me to register the birth.

Hoardasurass · 13/08/2025 15:46

Thadthimes · 13/08/2025 07:01

Don’t trans people prefer to be referred to as just woman and accepted as actual Women

Tough transwomen are legally and biologically men regardless if what they want. The world and language doesn't revolutionary around what they want and the sooner they get used to that fact the better because other people's rights matter

RhaenysRocks · 13/08/2025 15:51

MushMonster · 13/08/2025 08:33

It is observed indeed. But then it goes into your birth certificate and from there, rest of your paperwork. And it is named as assigned at birth, by the doctor who observed it and decided they fit, with no reason of doubt into female or male.
And.... it is so to account for a very small % of babies whose sex does not match that observed at birth or they cannot be put into female/ male group by their external genitalia. The actual deveopment of sex differentiation during pregnancy is complex, involves a lot of chromosomes and hormones, from both the mother and the fetus. So, in some cases, assigned at birth and actual sex do not coincide and in some cases this is not found out till puberty.

People with DSDs have asked repeatedly to not be included as some kind of evidence that sex is not binary. They are outliers, v rare and nothing to do with the trans debate.

JellySaurus · 13/08/2025 17:18

I will not call a man a woman. Not a tall woman, not a blue woman, not a bepenised woman, not any kind of woman.

Properly speaking, a trans woman should be a female person with the attribute of being trans (ie who thinks of herself as the opposite sex), just as a left-handed woman is a female person with the attribute of being left-handed. But the trans juggernaut has driven roughshod over language and has appropriated for men the language used to describe women, in their journey to appropriate womanhood and women's spaces. Well I won't go along with it. Woman, together with all its prefixes, is taken.

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