Are the old meanings of the words woman and man redundant?

[Thadthimes]

Various dictionary definitions seem
to have made the words woman and man redundant.

In short.

woman = XX chromosomes, adult human female (including extremely rare cases of other chromosomal configurations but always without the SRY genes)

woman = XY chromosomes, adult human male (including extremely rare cases of other chromosomal configurations but always with the SRY gene) but believe and feels they are XX and all the associated characteristics of an adult human female.

man = XY chromosomes, adult human male (including extremely rare cases of other chromosomal configurations but always with the SRY gene)

man = XX chromosomes, adult human female (including extremely rare cases of other chromosomal configurations but always without the SRY genes) but believe and feel they are XY.

If this was a venn diagram I’m not sure it would work.

AIBU to think we just need new words for the old biological meanings of these categories to save confusion?

The dictionary and news are wrong, but they’ll get there eventually.

People with DSDs don’t need new words to out them. They get along perfectly well knowing they are men and women with a health condition that impacts fertility.

Trans identities aren't about sex. They could get along perfectly well knowing they are men and women with a trans identity. And so could we. But some prefer to force the world to reorganise in their image. It won’t stick.

You can't change sex. You can alter your appearance somewhat through surgery and the use of hormones, but you will always ultimately be the sex you were born as. A man is never going to grow ovaries or a womb, and likewise a woman will not start producing sperm. There's more to being a woman than having breasts and a crudely fashioned vagina. Don't even get me started on those men who don a wig and lipstick and think they're suddenly a woman 😡

No, because they aren't. They are men.

They, as a group, have XY chromosomes and a penis and testicles and, lacking a vagina or ovaries or breasts, are unable to bear or nurse children.

Gosh, you really do need to go back to Biology GCSE don't you OP !

Don’t trans people prefer to be referred to as just woman and accepted as actual Women

Although that idiotic definition should be there at all, it is only the second definition, not the primary one, for the entry women.

The primary definition, as you say, is 'adult female human being'.

So how is it that you are suggesting that the primary definition should give way, and cede its meaning? Wouldn't it make sense for the secondary meaning (which is there as a result of top-down pressure, not as a result of an organic evolution of meaning) to be displaced -- by the already-existing and perfectly adequate term "transwoman" (defined as an adult male human who identifies as female)

No, they just think they're women.

But we already have said other words: male and female.
Also, the biological sex has much to do with chromosomes, but to fit into female or male you need to have all the primary and secondary characteristics of said sex.
Most of us get a sex assigned at birth that matches our external genitalia and that is good enough for life.

Then, the whole of us, not just our biological self, is a girl or a boy, then a man or a woman. These words are more related to gender identity, as it goes further than biology.
It is not confusing. We do not need any further words for those who are happy with this setting.

Some people are not in agreement with the above regarding their own identity. And me, personally, I am fine with that and I have no problem refering to anyone as their preferred identity, pronouns and so on. If they want new words, so be it. I will do my best to learn them.
But.... I refuse to lose the terms woman and mother. Those are my preferred options and I am sticking with them.

Bit early to be under your bridge isn’t it?

I prefer to be referred to as 'Goddess divine' and accepted as an actual 19 year-old, blonde, thin, Amazonian-heighted, multi-millionaire Swedish supermodel but so far no-one seems to be biting. Alas.

I believe this poster is just here to wind us up this morning with their faux innocent "Don’t trans people prefer to be referred to as just woman and accepted as actual Women". Unfortunately we're falling for it.

Absolutely a wind-up.

No because that would be denying scientific fact, and the vast majority of people just aren't that stupid.

Words were created to enable accurate description in communication. If I want to express the fact that a six foot man in a dress has just punched me, telling the police I was punched by a woman does not aid identification.

Words are for accurate expression and the general populace will use them for accurate communication regardless of what you or anyone else wants.

No not in Real life.

But isn’t the right thing to say, trans women are women?

You're a bit late to the party @Thadthimes 🤣

But isn’t the right thing to say, to lie? The only requirement to be a transwman is to be a man. A woman cannot be a transwman.

The right thing to say is that sex is immutable and relevant. The right thing to say is that language matters. The right thing to say is that safeguarding matters. The right thing to say is the truth.

Don’t trans people prefer to be referred to as just woman and accepted as actual Women

So? I'm sure bullying schoolboys prefer to be referred to as just innocent children and accepted as actual innocents. The right thing to say is the truth.

OP’s definitions 1 and 3 are correct, 2 is wishful thinking by sex fetishists and 4 is wishful thinking by disturbed women or (more often) girls.

Imagining otherwise is what causes confusion. Shame on the publishers of the Cambridge Dictionary.

Because the two meaning both in the dictionary and in use throughout the workplace and generally have two very different meanings.
If trans women are women then the meaning has been lost.

But they're not women. The problem isn't not having words but s combination of a small proportion of aggressive bullies,and a few more wets who apparently think facts can be changed if someone is discomforted or shouts loud enough, who muddy the words up. Adding accurate words is redundant when people are playing silly games

Absolutely right.

Great user name 😍

This is a windup.
Women are women. Transwomen are men. Trans right are men's rights.

Have you tried talking to any actual scientists about this? I have - actual proper scientists who are experts in human biology and none that I've spoken to believe TW actual are W. Biologically they're not women.

If trans women are women then the meaning has been lost.

Transwomen aren't women though. They're men. Otherwise they wouldn't be trans.

How many times does it need said?

I know, it's like going back in time isn't it....

But transwomen aren't women. The definition that I suggested clearly states that they are men.

You might just as well argue that the term radish is fatally compromised by the existence of horseradish

woman
(ˈwʊmən)
n, pl women (ˈwɪmɪn)
1. (Anthropology & Ethnology) an adult female human being
2. (modifier) female or feminine: a woman politician; woman talk.
3. (Anthropology & Ethnology) women collectively; womankind
4. the woman feminine nature or feelings: babies bring out the woman in her.
5. a female servant or domestic help
6. a man considered as having supposed female characteristics, such as meekness or timidity
7. informal a wife, mistress, or girlfriend
8. the little woman informal one's wife
9. woman of the streets a prostitute
vb (tr)
10. rare to provide with women
11. obsolete to make effeminate
[Old English wīfmann, wimman; from wife + man (human being)]
ˈwomanless adj
ˈwoman-ˌlike adj