To leave DH if he loses his second job in three years?

[Joness2]

My DH got dismissed (walked before he was pushed) from his previous job 3 years ago. It was set to go to hearing but his Union representative advised him he was likely to be dismissed so he resigned in order to not have to declare a dismissal when applying for future roles.

I was furious, I was in the early stages of pregnancy and could not believe he would be so stupid. It was a very worrying time for a while with finances etc.

He found a new job about 2 months before our child was born so had minimal paternity leave (he would have had 4 weeks had he not left his job). It caused a lot of resentment and I struggled to get over it.

He has remained in that job without issue until now. He told me after work today that he has been informed of disciplinary action due to inappropriate comments towards (female) colleagues on a night out. This is the exact reason he had to leave his job before. He promised me then he would not go on nights out with work again, something he has mainly stuck to only waning if it’s something where there isn’t drink involved.

This time, he is convinced that he will get a warning and is not at risk of dismissal. This is his opinion rather than factual.

I am so bloody angry with him doing this again and told him that if he loses his job, we are over. Infact, I’m considering leaving regardless having been told the vile comments.

He says I should be supporting him and that we are a team and to threaten to leave is making it ‘about me’.

Do you think I should try to support him through this and how to handle any hearing or would you leave him to clean up his own mess?

Ex HR here, albeit some time ago (when 'banter / high jinx' were more likely to be tolerated).

The chances of him keeping his job are miniscule. Not only is his behaviour disgusting, the risk of the recipients of his vile comments leaving and filing for constructive dismissal are very high. I can't imagine the company will want to take that risk, or keep such a toxic employee. I suspect they are following their procedures, but he will soon be unemployable unemployed.

What I'm struggling with the most though, is his apparent nonchalance. He's not apologetic to OP, or presumably his co-workers. He's convinced himself that he'll just get a slap on the wrist or maybe a warning. He doesn't seem to realise how abhorrent his behaviour is.

Not at all, my immediate worry given the hearing is tomorrow is how we will keep paying the next bills if he loses his job. I know I’ve got bigger problems but I can’t resolve them all straight away

Yes, he is completely ‘shrugged shoulders’ about it all - ‘nothing you won’t hear down the pub on a Friday night’ sort of thing. It seems he has that attitude as only one of the comments was made to the colleague directly and he felt she was giving as good as she got with ‘banter’ (I HATE that word)

Yeah he'll definitely quit to not have to disclose a dismissal as he knows what he did is disgusting and wrong-problem is he's not bothered and he will continue to display his behaviour as he knows all he has to do is quit his jobs every time he's caught and pulled up on it. I'm surprised nobody's actually reported his pest behaviour yet. The behaviour he is displaying could wind him up on a sex offenders register and once that's public knowledge your family could end up targeted unfortunately as most gossips tend to put the opinion out there that the family know and condone the behaviour. He needs to realise that what he does affects his family too

I’m sorry you’re dealing with this. It must be awful. Alcohol isn’t any kind of excuse though is it. Very few men behave like this at work in a mixed sex workplace and few men would say these things to, or about colleagues at work socials even when drunk. I’m 66 and have been to lots of work socials where people are drunk and nothing like this has happened. This kind of misogyny is in him.

So he was sacked quit for sexually inappropriate comments, got a new job, was moved for inappropriate behaviour, made comments to another man who reported him, publicly made graphic, suggestive comments 2 other colleagues. And hes successfully hid this since May?!?!

Each time he says these things he gets identified as a pig and reprimanded. And he still does it. Have you asked yourself what response hes hoping for? And how hed behave if (not that anyone would) someone responded well to that?

Im sorry OP but if he was getting a verbal warning there wouldn't be a pack or hearing. If he was getting a verbal warning hed have got it and youd be non the wiser. Id be surprised if he didnt get a warning when they moved him. And none of these near misses have had any effect, no responsibility, no accountability.

Im guessing when you say 'if you get sacked, how will we pay the bills' he just says 'i won't get sacked'
God, he's genuinely not very smart is he.

I think your immediate worry should be how do you sort your finances, life etc alone. Because I don't know how you can bare to be under the same roof as this man, he's making my skin crawl and he's not even anything to do with me (thankfully!).

More or less - he seems convinced the union are adamant he won’t get dismissed and they’ve helped him with how to play it.

There are plenty of jobs where you'd be suspended before a disciplinary. Has he definitely been going to work?

I am very very very surprised this happened in May

do you mean the 1st of these comments / incidents happened in May and he continued

as where I work he would have been sacked / dismissed / what ever you choose to call it, in May - June at the latest.
It is the middle of August now.

and he knows / realises it is serious

that is why he has informed you of a little of what is going on...

@LillyPJ yep not sure why I said that - clearly had a brain fart!!

He's just grim as they say. Hasn't any grace, respect, value or tolerance to women. I wonder does he watch violent porn secretly

I’d get the divorce started now.

You need to get onto the website ' Entitledto ' and see if you will be able to get any assistance re benefits

however

do bear in mind he will not be entitled to unemployment benefit if he is sacked / leaves of his own choice, for I believe it is up to 6 months

I'm entirely in favour of unions, but wish they weren't trying to help this man. Shouldn't the union be more concerned about the people who have to put up with him at work?

Agree!

I agree. Unions are there to help people who have genuinely been treated unfairly at work. They should be supporting that vile man's victims of his sexual harassment rather than trying to help him keep his job. He doesn't deserve their help at all

I suspect he may be in denial about this.

I’m not in HR but have been (at a senior mgt level) involved in many disciplinary proceedings.

Go back 5/6 years and yes, maybe the “banter/out of office/drinking” defence would have worked but times have moved on.

Even the fact he didn’t say some comments to the persons face isn’t a pass.

Exposing your colleagues to vile comments about someone else in the workplace is still bullying and harassment, not just because it’s targeting that person (especially if they have a protected characteristic) but also because the people who heard it shouldn’t have to be exposed to that kind of awfulness.

Additionally as a pp described the implications of people impacted if no action is taken will be a factor.

Slap on the wrist and all goes back to normal? No - unless you are expecting a raft of grievances and potentially escalation to tribunal levels.

He’s working for a business and within the law they will take the path of least risk and expense.

Right now I’d bet good money that’s your H being subject to at minimum a final written warning with a strict personal improvement plan (thats basically designed to manage him out of the business) but more likely being dismissed for gross misconduct.

This was not one comment that was in poor taste. It was many highly inappropriate and graphic descriptions of how he wanted to behave towards (even in his head) other employees.

If I was involved as a manager at his meeting tomorrow, based on what’s been posted he’d be fired.

They have presumably told him he needs to show remorse, but it will count for nothing at all if they can tell it's not genuine. Or if he continues to demonstrate the attitude you've described here when they scratch the surface.

My husband had a disciplinary once, for a genuine (but quite bad) mistake, nothing like this, and he was extremely remorseful and upset it had happened. It was only that that helped him keep his job- if he hadn't been really, really sorry, he'd never have kept his job. They grill you backwards and forwards, pull out every email, every phone record and every even vaguely similar situation, get statements from colleagues, in his case to find out whether his mistake was carelessness and irresponsibility, or just human error. If you're lying or faking it, they will suss you out.

As @BreadInCaptivity so insightfully explains, the next step was that his manager implemented a plan for extreme scrutiny and "support" in order to squeeze him out of the role anyway, so he wasn't saved in the end. His card was marked as soon as he made that mistake.

Is he very, very good at his job and in a very specialised role which very few people can do?

Op I apologise if I was not understanding. I do see now how this leaves you financially vulnerable and stressing. I’m sorry.

FFS ,a marriage is for life, through better or worse. Today's generation, all hard done by and spoilt. Grow up!

You only have your word that the union rep is representing him, they may just be giving him advice.

As you know you are married to a liar.

Today’s generation, learning from
yesterdays generation, where women had to stay with abusive men because they had no agency. Good for us demanding better for ourselves and our children.

Sorry OP I know it’s not helpful but the comments are quite disgusting and what’s most worrying that he has zero remorse OR at least enough self awareness to not say these things despite his first incident and its consequences