My Incel father and brother

[Inshockandsome]

I am not sure what to do.

All of my life I have lived under a cloud of misogyny and I have been treated like a second class citizen in my own home. There to serve and know my place. Initially as a child I became a tom boy to take the pressure off - because I recognised my femininity as a vulnerability.

I was beaten, demeaned and consistently emotionally abused. I was objectified, and told my education doesn’t matter as I will just be married and have children anyway. It was a toxic environment to grow up in.

My father openly demeans all of the women around us - waiters, bar people - anyone that is female. The women he hated most were strong women or anyone that dared to challenge him. He said he hated ‘kids’ and never intended to have a relationship with me. I was there only to keep my mother ‘quiet’. My mother has always stood by him, despite his open contempt of her.

I found my voice as a teenager and stood up to him. He reacted with extreme violence, he would use ritual humiliation and weaponised my body against me. A severe eating disorder followed, multiple suicide attempts before I escaped.

My grandmother (his mother) died and he didn’t seem too bothered. His main interest was his inheritance.

Fast forward to today, my mother tells me he follows certain ‘groups’ on line. He speaks openly now of his feelings around strong men, weak women etc. I had to remove my children from their lives years ago. I have stopped contact for many years.

My brother is now the same. Ruined by his enduring dislike of women, despite having a wife and 3 x dds.

Father is now seriously ill and I have no idea what to do.

This

@suki1964 So sorry you had to experience him ripping up your address. That's horrifc and you deserve so much better. I hope you are proud that you overcame him.

Do nothing. Continue to cut both your father and brother out of your life.

I am so sorry that you experienced this, and also so angry for all of us that half of the population thinks itself so superior to the other and free to abuse us.

What is in it for us is my question, and I suggest you ask yourself that too. He wanted no relation with you, and it’s not hard for men to make children. He deserves npthing from you. Nor does your brother. God knows why women still take these scum on, if they have the choice: and we need to find ways of giving women that choice. Half their hatred, I think, is that fundamentally, biologically, women need so little from men. We provide the future, not them.

A toxic person whose own poison has finally caught up with his body. Good riddance.

Let him go surrounded by all the love he always gave you... none.

Congratulations on escaping all that toxicity, you're a survivor!

Whether you go to see your father or not is up to you. Here are a couple of things to bear in mind:

The world is full of fathers and father figures who don't lack shortcomings but even so, do more for their children than keep them alive. Among other things, mine encouraged me to develop a reading habit, took me with him to buy fish and chips, and sat with me as I came round from surgery. Oh, and I got my terrible feet from him, but the least said about them the better. My point is, you don't have to be a saint to be a decent parent and worthy of your child's time when you're ill and maybe dying. Nothing was asked of your father that wasn't fair and reasonable.

People visit their dying family members to give them both the chance to say things they need to say and "put their affairs in order." This can give the dying person peace and comfort the loved one. Ask yourself, does your father deserve a peaceful death? Will seeing him offer you any comfort? If the answer to both questions is no, why would you go and see him?

The ambivalence is tough x

I saw on The Pitt that if you don’t know what to say to a dying person you say “I love you. Thank You. I forgive you, please forgive me”.

You don’t have to say this to his face, but if you can get to the point where you can say this even in your head, then it will do you the world of good.

He lost the right to expect to be treated as a father by abusing you. Shared DNA doesn't mean you owe him anything. I vote stay away.

I love this idea.

The abuse wipes away anything good he ever did.
Don't forget that he would have been working if you had never been born. He worked so he could afford the things he wanted, and one of the things he wanted was a human punching bag. He didn't go to work and pay the bills out of love and concern for you, so you need not be thankful.

"You treated me like shit. You can't do that when you're dead, so fuck off."

Why on earth should HE forgive HER? What for??

Wow! Well done for escaping such an oppressive regime and going on to thrive.!!

I have a similar and not quite so extreme background. My dad too is dying... He has been hugely damaging to me.

I have been low contact for many years.

More recently I've fallen into being his carer... Not intentionally...

I have massively mixed feelings about this...

Part of me partially accepting this role?

Something about healing past...?

But... It hasn't worked... As my father is sadly still the sexist, narcisstic man...

I didn't want regrets... But I kind of, have them already.

You have nothing to gain by contacting him. You would only be giving him another opportunity to hurt you. He made his bed. Now he can die in it.

We don't get a choice of family but you can choose not to associate with them.
I'm sorry your past was very painful.
Leave it to the past.

I suggest stronger boundaries with your mother, as someone mentioned earlier, if you are remaining in contact with her. Do you really need to hear about your father when you talk, what he is doing online etc? Is it really in your best interest?

You do know what to do - avoid them both at all costs. Make sure your mother knows you are not interested in hearing a single word about them, do not allow her to breach that fair boundary.

They're both married with children. They aren't incels so don't call them that because you'll undermine your argument.

Lol. No. You absolutely never have to say this, and it will do her the world of harm if she does not want to.

This coercive forgivness nonsense is nearly always aimed at women. Instead, she can just discard him. That means she does NOT forgive him unless she chooses to or wants to, she just discards him like the rubbish he is.

Coercive forgivness is a continuation of abuse and a type of secondary wounding. The abused person gets to decide when - if ever - they forgive. Nobody else gets a single say in it.

It is teaching women (and it is nearly always women) to be good little victims, don't be too upset for too long, don't allow the abuse you suffered to make others uncomfortable.

Discarding someone is far more helpful and will do her the world of good. She can have CBT or other types of therapy if needed for the abuse he chose to inflict and learn ways to deal with traumatic flashbacks and other side effects of his abuse without EVER having to give the gift of forgiveness. She can go through her life quite comfortably and happily without dwelling on him, with zero forgiveness of any kind.

Until she is ready. Which might be never, as is often the case with abuse.

Funding your food, clothing, housing... thats not 'care' in the empathic sense.

Thats a legal responsibility, first and foremost and also a very visible sign of his superiority and seniority over you, your Mum etc.

And if he were not to provide for a child under his roof that too would be very visible as a failing, which a man like him is not likely to want.

You owe him nothing. Not a scrap. Not the steam off your piss.

It’s not about him, it’s about her letting go and moving on. To do that you have to find a way to forgive.

The OP is expressing ambivalence, meaning just cutting people off may actually cause her harm in the long term.

She doesn’t have to follow the advice, and she can just say it in her head. Forgiving doesn’t mean tolerating or allowing he shitty behaviour. It means freeing yourself from your responsibility to hold that person accountable.

It’s a power thing. If you ask for forgiveness you are taking the power away from the abuser to tell you, you are a bad person. You are showing that you are able to a strong person by holding yourself accountable.

Again she doesn’t have to say it to him, she can say it like a prayer in her head to help HER to move on and lay down the burden of responsibility of making amends.

You owe this man nothing - he should be in prison for the things you described. Anyone so full of hate he would do those things to a little girl is not worth any time or care.

This is awful to read that you should be grateful because he went to work to put food on the table. You should not be grateful for anything that man did and if you are feeling guilty because he worked hard despite the abuse then I think you should seek some therapy.

Perhaps in your mind it is. In reality, to him, it will validate everything he did to the OP. The OP's father has nothing to forgive. This dragging ourselves through the mud to be seen as nice women is what keeps us putting up with these shit men, and then choosing them as partners too.

Fuck him.