My Incel father and brother

[Inshockandsome]

I am not sure what to do.

All of my life I have lived under a cloud of misogyny and I have been treated like a second class citizen in my own home. There to serve and know my place. Initially as a child I became a tom boy to take the pressure off - because I recognised my femininity as a vulnerability.

I was beaten, demeaned and consistently emotionally abused. I was objectified, and told my education doesn’t matter as I will just be married and have children anyway. It was a toxic environment to grow up in.

My father openly demeans all of the women around us - waiters, bar people - anyone that is female. The women he hated most were strong women or anyone that dared to challenge him. He said he hated ‘kids’ and never intended to have a relationship with me. I was there only to keep my mother ‘quiet’. My mother has always stood by him, despite his open contempt of her.

I found my voice as a teenager and stood up to him. He reacted with extreme violence, he would use ritual humiliation and weaponised my body against me. A severe eating disorder followed, multiple suicide attempts before I escaped.

My grandmother (his mother) died and he didn’t seem too bothered. His main interest was his inheritance.

Fast forward to today, my mother tells me he follows certain ‘groups’ on line. He speaks openly now of his feelings around strong men, weak women etc. I had to remove my children from their lives years ago. I have stopped contact for many years.

My brother is now the same. Ruined by his enduring dislike of women, despite having a wife and 3 x dds.

Father is now seriously ill and I have no idea what to do.

"he didn’t kill me and he paid for my childhood"

You're trying to find nice things to say about him, and that's the most he gave you. He didn't actually kill you, and he paid the bills. That is setting the bar so low that it is underground.

I am sorry you are going through this OP.

I wouldn't contact your father from all the abuse you have had to endure.

If you want to see him one last time for yourself, then that's different, but you don't owe him anything.

@Inshockandsome both are forced to live celibate lives, not always, but now.

So how did both men father children if they are celibate?

And I imagine the fact that they have already been selected once by one woman would suggest that they may be able to find another partner if it was necessary.

Given your account of both men, perhaps "misogynist", "sexist", or "bigot" is more appropriate. An "incel" would not have children.

I have similar. I take strength in that the more successful I become, the more and better I make my point. I also remind him at every opportunity that the only person to ever win two Nobel prizes for different subjects is a woman.

Write him a letter detailing that despite his abuse towards you and hatred of strong women, you became a successful, strong loving woman! That you have achieved so much more than him, you have a happy fulfilling life, a decent kind H and lovely children who don’t fear you. That you feel sorry for him, he who is a walking ballsack of hate, who won’t be mourned when he dies.
Then go outside and burn it.

So sorry you had a father like that and had to live through that.my own father used to put me down all the time,when I was a child and my parents divorced he married again and hated it if his wife spoke to me,asking did I want a drink etc,as he used to get jealous,as the attention was off him.i used to feel so down around him and upset by him all the time,i decided to cut him off completely.i have been much happier for many years without him.and it will stay that way if anything happens to him.please stay away,you don’t have to deal with him anymore.look after yourself and have a wonderful happy life xxxx

Oh OP, I'm so sorry for all you've been through. As others have said, you owe that man NOTHING.

I'm glad you have a lovely and supportive dh. If you choose to have any communication with your biological father, make it what you need - or what the little girl you used to be would need. He deserves nothing.

Contact of any kind sounds inadvisable to me, but whether you see him or not, please keep putting yourself first. He should have done that when you were a little girl. He chose not to.

Bear in mind, too, that any communication with him might leave you open to more misogynistic abuse from your brother if he's the same.

Finally, sorry, but your mother is SO in the wrong for not protecting you from him. Keep safe and lean on the people - dh? Friends? Therapist? - who are actually good for you. Take care 💐💐 x

What a monster. I’m sorry this happened to you. Hold firm on your boundaries. Maybe also find a way to tell the hospice nurses he is a nasty, misogynist and violent creep. Your closure is the happy life you’ve built as a survivor of childhood trauma. You sound very resilient and I applaud you.

Father is now seriously ill and I have no idea what to do.

Exactly what he would do for you.

Nothing.

Absolutely this.

He didnt kill me and he paid for me [didnt allow you to starve]

That is probably the lowest bar ever set for father hood.

It breaks my heart that there is a tiny part of you that thinks you should be grateful he allowed you to live.

I’ve recently lost my father to cancer after spending many weeks away from my family caring for him. We didn’t have the easiest relationship but I also felt that pull of duty and “he is my father.”

but following his death I found out a number of things about him and our family that surprised me but didn’t shock me. It’s left a really bitter taste in my mouth. All I ever wanted was an honest relationship with him and he denied me that until the end.

All that to say: you will get no closure, no death bed reconciliation. He will not have come to realise the error of his ways. You are risking giving him another chance to make you feel like shit. There just isn’t enough time now for you both to come to any kind of genuine, mutual acceptance.

I wish I had been able to escape the pull of filial guilt. I hope you can do the same.

All the best to you x

OP ,I'm so sorry to hear about the abuse you suffered at the hands of your father. I cannot begin to imagine what you went through. No one can tell you what to do in this situation - it has to be your choice. You may find visiting him brings some kind of closure, or 'the end'. It may not. Whatever you decide, be kind to yourself x

Nah fuck that. Write the letter and send it.

Go tell him exactly how you feel, how your childhood was and that hes wrong about women

Please don't be fearful about closure or regret, that might be a concern in a situation where the person dying has some decency in them and the falling out is something that can be fixed.

That's not your situation. This 'man' was a nasty, abusive bastard to the little girl he was supposed to love and protect. The best thing you can say about him is that he housed you and didn't kill you. That's honestly one of the saddest things I've read on here.

He won't have changed. You've come a long way in going no contact and creating a good life for yourself, please do not take a massive step backwards by seeing him now. Not only will it mess with your head, but he'll get the satisfaction of knowing he still has a hold over you.

I truly don't think you'll feel regret when he dies, only relief.

I wouldn't give him the satisfaction of knowing that the OP is even thinking of him at all. I also wouldn't give him the opportunity to play the victim, which is absolutely what he will do if OP tells him some home truths.

Far healthier to stay away.

I'm so sorry for the way you have been treated.

Right now, you are proving him wrong by living your life. If you go to him as a dutiful daughter because he's suffering, he will see that as proof he was right. He will think that he was justified in treating you like dirt. After all, you're a woman and your job is to bow down to men even when they hurt you.

But that's not your job, you deserve respect. You deserved love and respect now, and you deserved it as a little girl but he hurt you instead. You don't owe him anything now.

If you do want to see him, go to show him what a lovely life you've built for yourself. Take your DH and make him watch how a decent man interacts with a woman he loves. But don't lift a finger for your dad when you're there. He doesn't deserve it.

Do what you must for yourself and what's best for you long term, whether that's seeing him or not. Personally I would not be seeing him at all or insulting him if I did choose to see him, but what is best for you may not be the same as what would be best for the rest of us.

I'm so sorry you experienced this. You don't owe him for paying for your childhood.

Maybe I’m a bitch, but if he made your life such a living hell then quietly celebrating from afar sounds appropriate?!

Hi Inshockandsome - First of all you should re-read your original post and all the awful things you had to endure and the misogyny and cruelty you were forced to suffer. You told us your father stated he did not intend to have a relationship with you - I quote. "He said he hated ‘kids’ and never intended to have a relationship with me. I was there only to keep my mother quiet’". You owe neither he nor you Mother anything. Maybe I am hard, but if someone treats me badly, especially as a child, and I have decided that there is no way back when I reach adulthood, then it is not going to make one iota of difference if they are ill, dying or dead. Deathbed regrets and apologies mean nothing to me, they don't change or excuse the terrible behaviour of bullies, whether that be abusive and cruel words or violence or both, by people who have made you feel like less of a person especially when you are a child and can do nothing about it - the very people you should feel safest with. You can't get those chilodhood years back - they're gone. The fact that your Mother did not intervene is disgraceful and no matter how scared she may have been, if she ever was. You were an innocent defenceless child and I would not have even hesitated to try and stop him by ringing the Police, getting help from neighbours or even strangers and neither should she have ignored the cruel behaviour.

I can take so much crap, and I have done in the past, but once I turn, I turn and then there is no going back. My father was a strict cold man and treat me and my older sister terribly always telling us that we were not wanted - he would have preferred boys and he treated our male cousins very kindly. I spent my childhood and some of my teenage and early adulthood always seeking his approval. I left home at 16 and moved down South and then to London until 19 when I came back on a break and met my husband - who ended up being another bully who I cannot even be bothered discussing. Please do not waste any tears or time on either of them or your brother, they do not deserve you. Spend your precious time with your husband.

You should do what seems right to you. Don't be too influenced by what others tell you to do.
You said he's very ill. If this means he's going to die, then you can go to the funeral if you want, despite the advice here against it.
You could regret it afterwards if you don't go, and you won't have another chance. Likewise, if it's a case of visiting him and perhaps saying goodbye.

What to do? You do nothing

I had the same from my father - last contact I had with him was in 1986, then I saw him on the same bus as me in 1992 - I stood back. I found out he died in 1995 ( I found out in 1997 ) and I admit I was a tad flaky for a while. Cos at the end of the day he was my father

2007 I went to his grave. I wanted to go to ensure he was really dead and buried - he was - and that was my closure

Some parents arent fit to be parents

And it's pure shit for us kids who want/need parents We all need to feel loved by those that brought us into the world. I spent 28 years wanting my dad to love me , I tried everything I could to get him to acknowledge me, to love me , but he didn't and I was a child . it took me till 1986 to realise it was never going to happen, I got a flat and was moving out, I wrote the address down for him ,and in front of me he tore it up in such tiny pieces it was never ever going to be sellotaped together when my back was turned

Your father was the man who helped to produce you. He's not a father, you mean sod all to him, you owe him nothing

I voted YABU because you shouldn't spend any of your time thinking about him AT ALL.

Stay no contact and stay happy with your own non toxic life

If you possibly can, get therapy for closure. I did this and feel so much better.

I'd stay away as long as your father is alive, once he dies, I'm not sure if I'd want to speak to your mum, she may have been suffering badly and it may help give you closure to speak to her. It's possible she tried, unsuccessfully, to advocate for you but was a broken woman. Doubt I'd go to his funeral. There's no right answer, just what feels best to you. Don't think you should do something because others may think you should, do what feels right to you. I'd never go near your brother again.