Train etiquette

[EmJA85]

Was getting the train back to London from a day out in Folkestone yesterday with my husband and my 1 year old. It’s not possible to book seats on that line. We arrived at the platform 30mins early because we knew it would be busy. As soon as the train arrived people literally pushed us out of the way to get on. Then there was a man with 2 bikes by the door, we couldn’t attempt to move to another carriage because we wouldn’t get on and the trains only run once an hour. People tutted and moaned because I was having trouble getting on. There wasn’t space to keep the buggy up so I had to carry him and people thought it was acceptable to let me stand holding a 12kg toddler, he can’t walk yet and is very energetic. I spoke out and was given a seat but everyone gave me dirty looks as if I was in the wrong. If I rocked up late or if seats were assigned I would say fair enough but I was there early and they all pushed in front. The icing on the cake was the seat I was given was in the area with the tables so he was given a makeshift drum and thought it was a social event so he proceeded to babble at everyone for the hour , people were not impressed. Is there an unwritten rule that you don’t get trains with kids? I don’t have a car

Southeastern have a pretty useful "how busy is my train" timetable

https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/plan-your-journey/usual-seat-availability

I travel by rail quite a lot and find it good - especially for trains coming from London. The school summer holidays will skew it a bit, though

I live in Ramsgate and the London coastal trains in summer (both ways) are well known to be extremely busy. It can be a scrum getting on and any hesitation will mean people will push past you, I'm afraid. In general, though, folks are quite reasonable

I, personally, sit in aisle seats if I can because of ack and leg issues.

Nah , they did push me and it was intentional and I wasn’t faffing. I did try to stand up for myself but personally , I don’t believe in pushing people and also trying to push could have caused injury to my child but anyhow, story is .. I have morals but I shouldn’t expect others to have any and I definitely shouldn’t expect to be treated with what I would class as the bare minimum level of respect to shown to everyone, and I am entitled and snow flaky

I'd have loved to sit near a cheerful active baby playing the drums. How much noise can little toddler hands on a table make?

Public transport is for you and your baby as much as anyone else. You were right to ask for a seat. I'm glad you got one. If people travel on a train they should be prepared for proximity with humans of all ages and sizes, and should bring noise cancelling headphones if noise bothers them. Babies will cry and babble - can't be helped.

I agree. I was just saying that train companies are generally aware of how busy it can get.

You shouldn’t have been pushed, but you should have folded your buggy in advance.

You say you don’t expect special treatment but you’re clearly pissed off no one gave you a seat until you demanded one!

You say that but then on the Elizabeth line, where there are doors that make it clear where the train will stop, people have naturally taken to forming quite orderly queues. If they painted the lines so that you knew where the doors would be on other train platforms I think British people probably would queue. No idea why we don’t do it because it makes things far more pleasant.

Public transport is for everyone - I don't think anyone is denying that tbh. As for the drumming, nope, I cannot stand repetitive noises - that's why I take headphones though, as it's my issue. I always smile at babies/toddlers and their parents too, but I don't necessarily think a parent is automatically more entitled to a seat than any other random person (whose situation we don't know).

How much noise can little toddler hands on a table make?

Oh, you’d be surprised

Trains are a nightmare with stupidly short trains and long waits between trains. That's why so many people are stressed with it. In so many areas, it's simply not fit for purpose anymore. And that's before the inevitable delays, cancellations, etc which are commonplace, especially at weekends and worse on Sundays.

When your little one is walking, reins are very useful if you have to fold a buggy on a busy platform while travelling by yourself. It's difficult when they're still at the crawling stage because you can't really put them down on the dirty platform at all - you have to hold them.

British people are often criticised for queueing (Is that how you spell it? My phone is trying to take an e away!).
I think the pushing is perhaps quicker, or seen to be.

I have travelled thousands of miles on UK trains every year since long before the privatisation of BR. Etiquette has worsened along with service quality (the stress of which exacerbates the former). This continues to deteriorate. Train Operating Companies (TOCs) vary. Southern is mediocre-to-worse, and won’t care. It makes sense for anyone to avoid rush hours if possible. However engineering works and low staffing can make weekends extremely busy. A weekday lunchtime London train from the north may have left Scotland in the rush hour so still be rammed. Reservation programmes not loaded, guards failing to announce ‘bags off seats’, apps giving conflicting information, ticket acceptance refused, classes declassified and stock shortages running shorter trains are among myriad snags, especially during disruptions. I am able bodied, and stand in front of pushers-in so people with kids etc can get on. I ask someone if a seat with a bag is free, but give it so someone else when they move it. I give up my reserved seat if I have one. Most people are thoughtful while a large minority are inconsiderate. Check if you are eligible for passenger assistance. You will have to nominate a specific train or turn up early. It can transform your experience when it works well. If ineligible, ask staff for help anyway if there are any nearby who aren’t dispatching or announcing.

No you’re not. Majority of posters agree with you.

A significant number don't.
There's also people like me, who don't think pushing is necessarily great, but also accept that it happens. We also pointed out that OP may actually have been a bit disorganised (was the buggy collapsed or not????).

Blimey OP @EmJA85, you sound entitled and hard work. Your needs are no more important than other people’s needs 🤷‍♀️ You say I would like to stress the main issue wasn’t the seat - yet in your OP literally state ”people thought it was acceptable to let me stand holding a 12kg toddler, he can’t walk yet and is very energetic. I spoke out and was given a seat” And you say people weren’t working as it was a Saturday .. MANY people work on Saturday.
I suggest you stop being so entitled and try to live in the real world 🙄

TBH, I think it sounds like the best outcome. You didn't board the train when there were seats available, but you were nevertheless given a seat with the baby and your DH stood holding the buggy.

That's fine, isn't it?

The rest of it about people being unimpressed with your baby babbling is irrelevant. Not everyone wants to engage with a baby. I would have probably smiled and said hi to your baby but would then want to read / daydream / sleep.

You’d loose that bet hun and thanks for advice but not possible to get slow train in this instance

I agree there'll be people sitting who need the seats and we shouldn't judge them, but toddler is too small to stand and too heavy to carry easily. I have joint issues and can't stand on trains easily at all, but I'd go and sit on the floor if necessary if nobody else offered the seat. Shame about the pushing. Most people on my local line wouldn't rush ahead of a mother and baby - they'd be offering them the seat.

Pushing you out of the way is fucking rude and im amazed anyone genuinely thinks that's ok.

I had to stand on the train from Bath to Paddington via Reading. The train was already packed when it got to Bath, the pushing to get on was unreal. The man next to me was on crutches and no one got up for him. I stood next to the toilet until Reading and then found a place to sit on the floor. There was one train back to London every 90 minutes so I knew it would busy but the behaviour of some of the people was outrageous!

I complained to the train company as the train was shorter than advertised. The complaint was rejected! I was actually expecting a partial refund but nothing!

A thicker skin is not bad shout for public transport though OP. It saves a lot of agro. My three year old and I get trains gets there and everywhere and in fact his behaviour is better than a lot of adults. We got on a two hour train recently and the man opposite visibly rolled his eyes and huffed when we sat down. I ignored him and sat down anyway because we were as entitled to be there as much as anyone else. When we got off the train the man said how impressed he was that my little boy was so good, he’d chatted quite a bit but got on with some colouring too and then had twenty min on the IPad but used his headphones. So that showed him.

Unfortunately though there are a lot of unruly ones out there who haven’t been brought up with the same ideals of manners and etiquette so people are wary.

Please quote whoever you're replying to.

Yes you can change at Ashford for the slow services.

Just clarifying, people saw me, they were to the side of me. I was faffing. I was trying to step up but wasn’t given a chance

I used to travel to Bristol a lot from Plymouth and the trains were always crowded. Cross country knew this but did nothing. I mean, it's going from Plymouth to Scotland and there's 4 carriages