To think that, under the threat of "Let the war begin", there should be specific laws against male's entering female private spaces (and vice versa)

[SingleSexSpacesInSchools]

After being told they will not be allowed to enter female toilets, changing rooms, clubs and other private sexed spaces, men have vowed to "fight" or be arrested “multiple times”

https://archive.ph/tdkd0

"Let the war begin. Fingers crossed. You need to fight for all of us globally. It’s a war."

I think it is reasonable to have a specific crime for this sort of violation of rights and privacy, rather than Outraging public decency, Voyeurism, Exposure/ indecent exposure.

It seems clear that without firm dealing with, men are going to violate these spaces again and again.

My main hope is that all service providers offering a “female only” space will need to make it clear to all men that the space is not for them. Sometimes policing the space will be impractical and I wouldn’t necessarily expect female staff to tackle angry and aggressive men who are likely to react abusively to being challenged. But at the moment they say these men are welcome in female spaces, and they are not.

For people who have claimed for years that GC women are obsessed with toilets, TRAs who regard the Supreme Court judgement as suddenly undermining their right to use a toilet are pretty, ... well, ... obsessed with toilets.

The judgement has so many other, more important, ramifications.

Don't play their game. Whatever problems there are with men accessing women's toilets have been adequately dealt with by the SC clarification of the law.

Service providers, public bodies, and employers, can all feel confident now that it is lawful for them to provide single-sex facilities. What that means in practice is that if and when there are complaints about males accessing the toilets they can take appropriate action, such as warning that a gym membership will be terminated, and then actually terminating it if the person continues to break the rules.

Usually that will be all that is needed. But in cases where men are accessing women's toilets in order to harass and intimidate (as would be the case if they did it in the course of a protest action) I'm pretty sure that existing laws, such as behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace, would enable police to take action

We have never had a culture in which service providers (etc) have pro-actively enforced single-sex spaces, In practice, this has always meant that a few passing transwomen will slip in. That's not likely to change, since the judgement has not created any additional enforcement duties for service providers etc. So TRAs are pretty much getting exercised over nothing. This is especially true given that as soon as you move out of particular bubbles, such as university campuses, NHS staff facilities, London hospitality venues, there really and truly still is near-universal expectation that women's toilets are for women, and there is also a near-universal co-operation with that. So nothing is going to change, except in those bubbles.

It is a non-issue. Don't make it an issue by proposing needless laws that will foster a victim mentality.

You say the trans community will react with anger to being challenged.

Do you believe women being challenged won’t react angrily or be abusive to staff? If it’s up to judgement then some women would be challenged. No birth certificate no entry, sorry if you’re desperate and can’t hold it.

I didn’t say “the trans community”, I said men.

Could you answer the second part please, because I am curious. What should the consequences be for women like me (born female, just like you) who get mistaken for men but refuse to produce ID/birth certificates/answer any questions about whether I belong?

Nobody passes. Stop pretending they do.

This debate always seems to be about trans women ( ie men) demanding access to female spaces , female sports etc .
Are there any instances of transmen( ie women) demanding access to male spaces, male sports etc ?

Mate, I just want men to stay out of women’s spaces. I don’t want “consequences” for anyone, and I specifically said I don’t want female staff to challenge potentially aggressive men. How about you do your part and tell your male friends that other women won’t be happy with them there and could they please be more considerate and think about women for a change? Then we can all use our own single sex spaces with privacy, dignity and respect.

I’m not pretending. You can’t expect a discriminatory law like this to mean you won’t be challenged. Maybe I think you’re a bit tall, or too muscly.

I hope you’re never out without a birth certificate and desperate for a toilet.

Its one thing to pass a law like this, it’s another to assume the retail and hospitality sector have the staff levels to enforce it.

Do you think it’s worth putting extra work loads and stress onto women?

Not answered the question.

Birth certificates would be useless for this as GRA means they can be changed. GC women aren’t advocating for this.

Tough.

So you don't actually want the law to be enforced then? No consequences for anyone. That's great actually. Cool. I hope everyone I encounter thinks like you and leaves me and my trans friends alone.

As for the second part, it wouldn't really make sense for my community. I don't think my trans friends are men, I am happy with them being where I am, and so are the other women around me. We don't want them out of our spaces. So actually what I'd be saying is 'JK Rowling and a bunch of women that I argue with on the internet sometimes don't want you here, so despite you being welcome here for decades, and nobody in real life wanting you to leave, off you pop.' That would be weird.

I really do not care where people wee in a bar in Brighton with a rainbow flag above the door. I do care that my children have single sex provision at their schools and in their trips, that public buildings have single sex facilities, that rape centres provide single sex services, that single sex sports are really that, that prisons are single sex, that women’s officers are women, that same sex personal care is what it says… the list goes on.

@VioletandDill

No, I think it will be impractical to “enforce” in some situations. But other women disagree, so you can argue with them over it, rather than me.

Please stop telling men that they are fine to use female spaces, you and your likeminded friends are just adding to the conflict. Women are paranoid about men being in female spaces, because a group of men currently m feel they can freely use female spaces, and I put the blame equally on those women who pandered to these men and didn’t give any thought that other women minded. We do. Why is other women’s consent something that can be dispensed with? Women who care about this won’t back down now we’ve said no. The best thing you can do to be “kind” to your friends is to suggest that they should advocate for a third space you can use with them out of solidarity.

Yes, exactly. And many situations will be relatively easy to keep female only.

my word was "deliberately"

You don’t think they are men. But most people do think they are men.

and in actual certifiable fact, they ARE men. 100%.

They are men in every conceivable way. The idea that they are not just because they say so is absurd.

No part of this law is discriminatory. Not one part.

what part do YOU think is discriminatory?

you lot are really tedious.

We offered to help you campaign for them. You made your bed and now you can lie in it. The one that applies to your sex.

nearly nobody wants it to be enFORCED
pretty much all of us want men to stay out of women's spaces

they are the ones who want to enFORCE their way in.

If they stay out, we're all golden.

I'm not aware that I'm part of a "lot", so perhaps you'd care to explain what "lot" you think I'm part of, @Brefugee . Unless there is non-transphobic "lot" that I'm unaware of.

I'm concerned that some of my butch lesbian friends will be unnecessarily (and humiliatingly) challenged and that my gender fluid friend, who is no risk to anyone at all, will be put at risk when they have to use male facilities.

You are hardly painting your friends in a good light VioletandDill - according to you they have used spaces they were never entitled legally to use and now that has been clarified they are, with your connivance, going to ignore the Law, and break it by continuing to use those spaces. Interesting how you label them so negatively as not law abiding citizens or citizens with any respect for the concept of consent, safeguarding or the bare modicum of consideration for others.

I've never once seen a butch lesbian who looks like an actual man.