To think this is closer to a normal childhood than to extreme abuse?

[Greensl100]

I know you can’t and shouldn’t try to measure things like this but I am told that this sort of stuff constitutes extreme abuse and I just don’t think it does. I actually think it is within the realms of a normal childhood from the 90s.

Examples…

one occasion of parent trashing child’s bedroom

leaving 15 year old in home for a week while parents went away (in same country)

calling child self centred

saying child needed to be more like child’s friend

forcing child to spend time around a pet that caused child non life threatening allergic reaction

pulling hair and smacking

not allowing teen to use washing machine or cook for themselves in home

When left home and relationship broke down in twenties, told that they were not welcome in the family home and that if they visited they were a guest

these are some examples and of course I know none of them are brilliant parenting but I don’t think it equals extreme abuse?

Sadly, this is 'normal' for far too many children who are unable to see it for what it is. I'm sorry this happened to you OP but ensure your own children have a better idea of what acceptable parent behaviour should be. Nobody deserves this, least of all children who are learning from parents.

My experience was normal in my community at that time is basically what I meant. Because my childhood was not as bad as many of my peers, I find it hard to consider myself 'abused'.

As a contradiction though, I would never raise my children as I was raised and if I did, I would consider myself abusive.

I do have a lot of guilt over my childhood, as I was left to raise a baby/toddler sibling from about age 10 onwards while my mum and stepdad were in the pub all hours getting pissed, and - as you would expect - I did a terrible job.

To be fair now a day's it would be called abuse yes but then no it was normal parenting 'tough love' as my mum called it xx

Yes

Hey OP 💐

Youre going through a process of having to revisit your childhood through impartial eyes, and it can be really jarring and difficult. What happens when you’re a child of abuse is that you know no better so you feel ‘loved’ regardless, because you don’t have any comparison. Whenever your parents do awful things you assume that’s normal. Whats worse is that children are hard wired to see their parents as good and heroic and protective, so what then also happens is when they hurt you, you need your reality to be that they are safe and good, so your brain tells you that YOU are wrong/bad/deserved it. And it’s ’not that bad’. I have been here. I used to laugh off my abuse, make jokes about it while people went silent in horror. Because my brain couldn’t compute. It’s taken DECADES (and lots of therapy, no contact etc) to fully grasp that yes, I was severely abused. Severely. (and so were you). Physically, emotionally, verbally - abused.

Try reading your examples back and imagine it was a friends partner/spouse doing it - would you be downplaying it? people expect children to tolerate so much that they would tell a wife/husband to leave.

I’m sorry you had/have such shitty parents. You deserve peace and space and to heal from their abuse. Xx

This is clearly abusive. Why does it matter if it is extreme abuse or not? It's extremely abusive in my opinion and not remotely normal but ask yourself why you are having to talk about this in therapy and you probably have the answer you need.

The Bar is in hell if you think this is a normal childhood and I was born in the 90s.

That's true. There was a different standard in the 90s. A certain dysfunction existed

I remember my teenage female friend was expected to start the dinner (wash and peel loads of potatoes) once she got home. Id call into her for tea. Now you wouldn't see a teenager doing that.

I grew up in the 80s. I haven't experienced anything on that list and I didn't see them happening in any friends houses either.

On the whole I agree with you OP, but there are some things I disagree with.

Trashing a child’s bedroom isn’t the norm and I wouldn’t agree with that one, this is without doubt abusive.

Leaving a 15 year old alone for a week I’d say was pretty standard. I was left at this age and so were a couple of friends. I’ve left my son at that age for a weekend (only because I can’t afford a week otherwise I probably would, he was home everyday pre-teen because schools were shut during covid), I think kids are mollycoddled these days.

Being called self-centered / selfish, probably pretty accurate description of most teens and I’ve sure told my son on a few occasions that he needs to think beyond just himself.

Saying you need to be more like your friend. I’m sure I’ve heard this said growing up at some-point, not really a thing these days.

Forcing a child to spend time around pets they are allergic to, whats the context? How severe an allergy? Were antihistamines at least given pre-emptivly if visiting a house with known allergen? If not then yes possibly a little abusive. For instance, my son is apparently allergic to our cats and dog but he loves them and doesn’t want them to go, he's managed with daily antihistamines & nasal spray.

Pulling hair I would disagree with however getting a smacked arse for mis-behaving is / was pretty standard.

I’m confused about the washing machine and cooking, if you were old enough to be left for a week surely you’d be old enough to wash and cook? Did you not eat or wash things whilst home alone? I was regularly cooking tea from pre-teen ready for when my Mum got home from work so we weren’t eating late. I did nearly all my own washing as a teen.

Regards the breakdown of relationship scenario. When I moved out at 18 my Mum sold the family home and downsized ‘so I couldn’t come back’, though as an adult I’m sure it was also because it made financial sense, so when my relationship broke down I just had to get on with sorting myself out. However I’ve never been unwelcome, but always consider myself a visitor, not my family home though so I’m 50/50 on this.

I would classify this a child abuse - I understand parents have their moment but all the things together is abusive.

I am a child of the 50's 60's and no never experienced any of those. I mean you are obviously not dead or got a limb chopped off but surely you can see that is extreme abusive behaviour?

which bit is "tough love" or normal?

I feel so sad for you having to go through this as a child.

Sorry, but I didn't suffer anything on your list. I'm lucky but OP, this is abuse and add them all together and it becomes extreme abuse. There will be a reason that your therapist has said this. Stick with it, the reason why will become clear soon, I'm sure.

Yes absolutely obviously. 🙄

I'm just saying that at that time it was considered tough love and normal parenting I'm not saying that I agree just that it was a different era with different standards

I'm just saying that at that time it was considered tough love and normal parenting I'm not saying that I agree just that it was a different era with different standards

Definitely abuse and not normal or commonplace, but I wouldn’t characterise something as extreme abuse unless it caused lasting mental or physical harm. I would be horrified if I heard of any of that happening, but has to be a recognition that truly extreme abuse does occur, children are starved and beaten etc.

Having said that, I don’t want to minimise your experience and that you are in therapy suggests you were impacted - I’m sorry if I sound inconsistent.

I don't see the point of quibbling over whether it is 'extreme' or not. Though to me, extreme abuse would mean a child was in danger of their lives or had significant and severe ongoing mental health issues. So I see your point, but I don't agree it was close to normal parenting for the 90s.

Presumably you are havng therapy for a reason and exploring your background is part of this. And maybe the therapist is just trying to open your eyes, ir maybe they are exaggerating . But moving forward it's all about whether YOU feel the sessions are helpful. If not, you can change therapist. (I had one years ago over a particular issue I had and I found them judgemental and dictatorial, so I changed and found someone who was empathetic and validating.)

My mum said this frequently 😄 along with other criticisms.

To be fair my childhood wasn't the best and my self-esteem as an adult wasn't good for a long time. But she wasn't intentionally harming me.

Yes I agree with you I would feel the same. Good for you for having perspective and not wanting go around with a “woe me I’m the victim of extreme child abuse” mentality.

I have, it’s why I haven’t spoken to my mum in four years. It’s abusive and anyone who treats children like this is a piece of shit. It’s extreme because all of this throughout a childhood can cause huge amounts of trauma and mental health issues, you are supposed to love your children, not go out of your way to make them feel unloved and not good enough. I’m sorry this happened to you.

I wouldn't say it was extreme abuse and some of those things were 'normal' at the time but it was abusive behaviour.

I recognises a lot of your list - such as being woken at 2am to have everything in the room thrown on the floor and made to tidy it up, told when I was 18 and went to uni that I didnt live there any more and not to come home in holidays, etc but I did have more extreme abuse such as socks shoved in mouth so neighbours could't hear us screaming whilst she beat us, I remember being forced to eat mushrooms and when I was sick on my plate cos I hated them was made to eat that too.
I don't say the above to be 'oh i had it worse' and definitely not to minimise your experience but more to show context of what I would call extreme abuse, and actually there are plenty of people who had far worse than me and the above was from my adoptive mum - I was adopted when I was 5 due to neglect.

The only one of those I've experienced is being around a pet that caused me allergies. But we had had the same type of pet before and I didn't experience any allergic reaction until we had two. I was then also given the choice of rehousing the pets or keeping them. It was me who wanted to keep them so it was my choice to deal with the allergies, I was never forced onto experiencing it without a say.

I’m a child of the 90s, I experienced some level of emotional abuse and neglect with an alcoholic parent. But still nothing on your list.

Context matters; as in obviously it’s abusive (not extreme IMO) but were these parents at the end of their tether? With a really badly behaved teen for example? Truanting school, hitting bullying younger siblings, going out or staying out past curfew, dating/hanging around with older people, into drugs or alcohol? Not excusing their behaviour but teens can be cunts sorry.