Ex wants me to pay for kids’ school uniform

[dancingdad]

We are separated and have twins who are starting school this September. I pay her child care each month (£400). She’s sent me a long list of uniform they need for school. Am I right in thinking the child support I pay should go on this?
she has a kid by someone else too and the father was never asked to pay child support so I’m thinking my money will no doubt go on his uniform too!

Holy lack of basic awareness Batman!

You cannot actually be serious?! You think £400 a month for twins should cover their portion of rent, bills and food?! That's what child maintenance is for..,clearly there wouldn't be enough there to even cover standard clothes...never mind school uniform! Also the whole "I pay what CMS says" is very telling.
we all know a child costs more than £200 per month to maintain, you should be offering to pay more or buy them extra clothes if you were any kind of parent.
I cannot imagine letting my child go without because CMS says it's ok.

A decent pair of shoes is around £40, warm jacket for winter £30, bags they'll actually like that will fit their needs £12 ( all that increases drastically as they get older though) school branded book bag £15, school branded jumper £15 each - you need at least 2...5 polos and 3-4 trousers/skirts you can get for around £30 - and she's got to do that twice!! That's going by the cheaper options as well and not even including socks and pants, which most of us buy new for the start of the school year.

My DS secondary school uniform was over £100 just for the PE kit! We've been lucky that his blazer has lasted a couple of years each time but his uniform is still over £100 a year for the standard shirts, trousers and shoes.,,refuses to wear a coat (🙄🤷🏻‍♀️) which we have to buy anyway...to be shoved in the bottom of his bag, left on the bus or otherwise abandoned! And don't get me started on lost ties!!

The long and short of it is you should be paying at least half for ANY school items and trips...because no, your measly £200 per child a month does not cover large expenses like school uniforms and school trips.

If you want to see them more I'd go to court (I know a man whose ex forced him to go to court to see his child for no good reason).

In the meantime I would contribute extra to uniform. If you are strapped for cash though, many schools have a great secondhand uniform system. I used a mixture of school secondhand, Vinted, John Lewis and supermarket and it cost about £90 for one child.

Ok after re reading - I’m getting that you pay a total of £400 per month , that includes childcare ? For twins , that really is the bare minimum so yes you should be contributing to uniform. You don’t have them a lot either so the mother does have a lot of costs.

However, reading more it seems you want them more and she is not allowing this. You really need to get advice and fight to see them more - if there are no concerns, no history of violence etc then she is taking away your rights and seeing you as simply someone who should contribute without allowing you a proper relationship. It’s likely if this is the case - there are no other reasons that you aren’t telling us - that she doesn’t want you to have them more because then you would pay less ( a family member of mine is in a similar situation ) .

Ask her what uniform they need and offer half . Tell her you will go and buy it. It’s quite easy to find out what they need , it will be on the school website and with primary you can go to Asda and get the uniform cheaply. The school website should give you information on what branded things they need - likely just a jumper and a book bag . Tell her you will buy one new coat, shoes and school bag . That’s fair .

Buy some cheap clothes from Primark to send them back in when they come to see you or wash what they come in and send them back in that, then let them wear the nice clothes you get them whilst they are with you.

true but this should be doubled to include the other parents contribution too. It’s not all on the other parent

No maintenance doesn't cover additional costs like uniform, you should go halves on it.

Then get your arse to court and fight for access to your kids! You are legally entitled to 50/50 and will very likely get it if you petition the courts for it. Your ex doesn't have the right to keep them from you.

Praying you don't need any care when you are really old op. All the best !!

Take your children shopping for school uniform……….then you will know a) how much it all costs and b) that the cash was spent on your own offspring and not someone else’s responsibility

Ye aid pay some but I’d take them out to buy it. Blazers and shoes would be my suggestion. (As a minimum)

as for not seeing them then you need to get a court order. She cannot stop you parenting your children 50% of the time but may need to be told to by a judge.

XH only paid £30 a week, but I did ask him to pay for half of the school uniform and half of swimming lessons. He did for 2 years I think then decided that £27 a week was enough to cover everything because that is what CMS said he should pay, based on his very low self employed wages.

I have a male friend who is divorced, and I have always advised him not to be a dick and to pay as much as he can for his children. If he doesn't want to pay his XW, he can pay school/clubs/shops direct.

The CMS website makes it very clear that CM is the bare minimum and that other costs can be arranged between parents. Sadly most refuse to pay more than the bare minimum and leave the other parent to pick up most of the cost of bringing up the DC.

They aren't weapons and I am sad for you if your XW won't let you see them, but even then, you still need to provide fairly for them.

Your DC will remember your actions when they are older, keep that in mind.

You're not paying "her" child care, you're paying the child care for your children.

I also know a man who did this in the same circumstances. It did cost money for a solicitor, was worth it though and also reduced drama between him and his ex long term as they now just live by the court order. I think you can get an hour of advice from some solicitors for free? Possibly.

If you are a responsible parent and want more time with your children then things like paying for school uniform will go in your favour.

Go to court and have access and responsibilities formalised.

Typical Mumsnet responses but no, you don't have to pay anything additional over CMS and it's supposed to cover essential expenses. People forget that CM is supposed to cover half the costs. £800 a month, plus £150 odd in child benefit, is plenty to bring up twins and way more than a lot of parents have to spend.

I really hope children just starting school don't need blazers. Unless it's a private school, in which case the whole financial 'who pays what' needs a bigger conversation.

Have you been to Court so you can get this formalised?
If your ex is obstructive and you want to see your children then you need to go down the official channels, not just moan about how awful she is.

If you have a CAO and she's breaking it then you can go back to Court.

£400 a month for 2 kids is fuck all. CM is your legal obligation. It really is the bare minimum. I mean its £6.57 a day. You pay £6.57 a day per child. Legally do you need to pay more, No. Morally, absolutely you should pay for their uniform, shoes, trainers snd school supplies.

If you are unhappy with the amount of time you see your children then go to court about it. Take some initiative and do something about it. Realistically,, these are little kids if you're buying their first uniforms. You need to get shit sorted. Also make sure you have adequate living/ sleeping arrangements for when the are with you. In the meantime insure you are consistent and keep asking for more time.

No, it isn't.

And you're grossly underpaying for your children.

I'd be ashamed to admit that I only paid six quid a day to support each child.

Have you worked that out? It's less than £50 a week for each child.

You're a shit dad if you truly believe that this is sufficient and reasonable.

The CMS tells you the lowest amount you must pay.

Good dads always pay much, much more.

And how you can imagine that the paltry sum you pay your ex could ever stretch to support a third child just beggars belief

Your maths skills are severely lacking, as is your conscience.

Then go to court for proper arrangements. When did you separate?

I’ve read the comment about you want to see them more. Op, go to court and get more access, that would be fair. I’d like to amend my previous comment to you should pay for school uniforms and yes you should get to see your dc more. But also you should ask in court for arrangements that involve you taking them to school and collecting them from school at least a day a week, you need to get to know the school and their friends and families - parenting is an investment and you put in the work.

I'd love to be wrong, but I don't think OP wants advice on child arrangement orders so he can actually parent his kids.
Since his thread is about hoping to duck out of paying for them.
£6.50 a day to raise two kids.

This reminds me of my ex (about 10 years ago)
He was married and she didn't work (as in a paid job) but stayed at home with his kids while enabling him to work long hours
They spilt up but where not divorced by the time I met him
He was paying £150 a month for two kids and moaned like fuck about it
He refused to buy his child a book from some stall at his school as 'mum will buy you that from my money that I pay her'
He told everyone that 'the csa won't allow me to pay more!' but I told him that that's the bare basic money and he was getting a bargain in only paying that for two kids
If they lived with him,they'd cost him loads more in money and terms of his career
He dumped me the following day and is still telling everyone that they won't allow him to pay for any extras!
(While slagging off his ex for 'spending all my money on herself'-im sure there is a handbook for these fellas floating around somewhere)

Edited to add I did say to have them more but was told 'I can't,I have to work!'
Straight out of the deadbeat handbook

The parent who has the kids less often finds they can “make do” with just the items the resident parent has bought and can often ended up buying very little day to day.

Exactly.
Whoever posted that this Prince among men was paying £800 a month is incorrect.

He pays a total of £400, for the two children. £200 a month per child.

That poster had already doubled it. The amount they gave was per child per day.

The OP himself is paying approx. £6.66 per child per day (assuming a 30 day month):
£400÷2 = £200 per month per child.
£200÷30 days=£6.66.

With the mother's equal contribution, you're right, you'd double the OP's £6.66 each day for each child to get to £13 per child per day.

Pretty shocking, the levels CMS is set to.