Was the ‘race card’ pulled??

[Glittercloud17]

So just got back from vacation. At the airport, my daughter and I were queuing for passport control when a girl/teen pushed past in front of us. 5 seconds later I heard a lady say to me “excuse me, we just want to join our niece” pointing to the girl who’d pushed in. Without focusing too much attention on her or the family, but seeing an additional 3 people (another teen and two women) I said “sorry, but that girl just shoved in, so maybe it’s better she joins you instead” (meaning the 1 girl who’d pushed in should join her family behind my daughter and I, and not the whole family move in front of my daughter and I.

The lady said “oh, I don’t think she pushed in, darling” in a clearly sarcastic tone, but I didn’t reply as the girl/teen then walked back to join her aunt behind us.

Then I heard the woman say to the girl “you know exactly why she thinks she needs to be in front of us, this is another example”. At this stage I assume she meant I felt entitled to say this because they were a family of colour! So instead of pulling up the teen for pushing past us, the adult put the responsibility of this situation on me, insinuating I was bullying them for racially motivated reasons!!

It hadn’t even crossed my mind that they were black/white/asian whatever family! Only that a person had pushed past my daughter and I and the family felt they then had a right to go in front.

Comments continued among the adults in the family to the teens around how this was another example why the teenagers had to be more assertive “in this world” and that I, “the lady” was in the wrong.

I didn’t react, or say anything as I didn’t want to escalate something that clearly wasn’t there, and continued to look in front (not in their direction) or be accused of anything especially in an airport with a flight to catch! Later after passport control, I was standing talking to my daughter when the other adult (who I hadn’t looked at previously) violently pushed into my back as they walked past. I was very shocked by this (again I brushed this off).

People who have genuinely experienced racism - was I unreasonable, and were they justified to jump to this conclusion? I understand there’s a long, complex history around race, but I am not aware, at least on a conscious level, of discriminating against anyone like this??

Recognising that racism is systemic/ structural , and that unconscious bias exists, is important because it’s true.

This is no way denigrates white people or causes them to suffer.

The fact that you believe this is concerning and the reason we have people like Trump.

Reading that it appears you are the one pulling the race card.

There is a lot of assumption being made on your part.

Why didn’t you point out to the girl she pushed in front of you?

You’re offended by ‘Wowsers’ but happy to swear yourself?

Talk about white privilege and fragility.

I accept that we all have unconscious biases that we need to acknowledge and be open to addressing when highlighted, but that goes both ways. POC can have biases against white people (and other races) in the same way white people can. We are all human after all.

However, whereas I don’t doubt that racism exists with individuals, I don’t agree that structural and systemic racism exists in the UK today to any appreciable degree. This doesn’t mean I don’t accept there aren’t differences in disadvantage and wealth between communities, I just don’t believe that “racism” is the cause of those differences.

For instance, proportionally fewer children of Indian and Chinese decent are eligible for free school meals, and on average have higher educational attainment than their White British counterparts.

The issue, if anything, is culture, and various aspects of White British working class culture do them no favours when it comes to being healthy and wealthy.

The belief that “racism” is behind social issues in society is a smokescreen that diverts from the real issues.

As for Trump, I strongly dislike the man, but one of the reasons for his rise is massive overreach from the Left, and their attempts to overcompensate for past discrimination. And it’s interesting that his share of the vote increased significantly amongst certain ethnic group, demonstrating that they are also tired of all this.

You belittled her; she responded. That’s that. Stop making every little thing about racial grievance!

Your views on race are quintessentially left wing so it’s intriguing that you say you aren’t.… I’d be interested to know what views you have that aren’t, as it would be a juxtaposition of views I’ve never encountered before!

I'm a PoC and you did nothing wrong! Who the hell is voting your actions as being unreasonable?!?

I hate it when people automatically turn to that. Hopefully karma comes their way and they have a shit holiday, get bed bugs or anything for being shit human beings.

Don't let it get you down.

Oh get a grip.

Eh? She swore at someone else. I’m just commenting on the irony of being offended by ‘Wowsers ’ but swearing herself.

You're in danger of bringing common sense into it with those excellent posts at 7:00 and 14:06 @goodpudding, but you'll get no thanks for it from those whose entire approach to the subject is based in grievance

Happily I only know a very few POC like this - which perhaps isn't surprising given the number who've posted to suggest they have no time for it either

What are the other reasons for these issues?

Are you Hispanic to be making such a comment? What makes you think you can talk about someone else’s racial issues when you don’t experience them yourself?

My post was meant to be ironic, though appreciate that wouldn’t be obvious to those who haven’t read all my posts.

Personally I believe the hierarchy of oppression / pyramid of privilege is a particularly unhelpful concept that encourages victimhood and suppresses progress and positive outcomes.

It appears that your comments imply blame toward individuals for experiencing oppression. I would assume, based on this reasoning, that you hold similar views about other marginalized groups, such as people with disabilities.
Additionally, I’ve noticed that you have not provided a substantive explanation for the disparities in academic achievement among different ethnic groups, beyond expressing a disbelief in the existence of systemic racism. A more thorough and evidence-based discussion would be helpful in understanding your position. Or Perhaps, you don't have an explanation and are merely expressing an opinion.

And then your next post is: "oh do fuck off" No Nobel Peace Prize for you. Put your peace bringer card back in your purse. 🙄

You don’t think structural racism exists in the UK?

Some headline statistics for you :

47% of children of colour are living in poverty, compared to 24% of white children. Police are 6.5 more likely to strip search Black children, and 4.7 times more likely to strip search Black adults, than their white counterparts.

pretty shocking when the objective facts are still like this that you would seek to deny the existence of structural racism.

💯%

Could be the fact that many of the children of colour are in families who have not lived in the UK long? Relative newcomers to the UK, unless they are here in a professional work capacity, or as students, may not have the qualifications or language skills to earn much. That’s been the same over history, it can take a generation or two to become established.

Correlation does not imply causation.

Just because there are some statistics that show worse outcomes for certain situations for some races versus white British counterparts, it doesn’t follow that “racism” is necessarily the cause, especially as there are all sorts of other comparisons which point in other direction.

For instance, Black African pupils generally show strong educational outcomes, particularly at the GCSE level and in higher education, often exceeding national averages. However, there are also notable differences between Black African and Black Caribbean pupils, with the latter often experiencing lower attainment and progression rates.

Also, according to the ONS in 2024, arrest rates for Bangladeshi, Indian, Arab and Chinese people were lower per capita than their White British counterparts.

Those are just two examples, but they show how the picture is a lot more nuanced than your post presumes, and indicates that “racism”, and specifically racism conceived as a societal structure set up by indigenous White British to favour themselves over other races, is not a hypothesis supported even by a high degree of correlation, let evidence of alone causation.

In other words, the evidence suggests there’s something else at play, and blaming racism without considering other causes is not just demonstrably wrong, but by giving the wrong diagnosis, it makes it harder for the issues that do exist to be resolved successfully…. This just causes more harm to affected POC, all whilst causing racial tension and resentment.

My hypothesis is that the root of these issues is cultural, not racial, and that there are facets of all cultures which contribute to success and failure. The example of Black African versus Black Caribbean educational attainment is an excellent example of this I believe.

I believe the answer therefore is for communities (and that includes White British communities who are are struggling and failing compared to others from different backgrounds in many areas) to seek answers and solutions by being more introspective and honest about their own issues, being prepared learn from others where necessary, rather than automatically seeking to blame others, especially the divisive claim that another race (White British) has supposedly contrived to set up a society to thwart them!

None of this is to deny that racism exists, and isn’t a contributory factor in some instances, but the evidence suggests that the primary cause of the issues seems to be something other than structural racism in society.

@tambora

And as for the disproportionate number of Black people who are searched by Police, Black people commit a disproportionate amount of knife crime, so there will be many more incidents where Police will have just cause to search Black people!

In a shocking statistic from the London Assembly in 2022, a report stated that 61% of knife crime in London is committed by Black people, despite that they only comprise 13% of the population.

Now an obvious conclusion might be that this is the case because Black people are simply a more violent race…. But I’m not a racist and I disagree with that conclusion… I believe the causes are more complex and likely relate to culture. If it were due to poverty or lack of opportunity, and a systemically racist society, the numbers would be similarly high for other ethnic groups, but they’re not.

My post at 22:39 addresses your points I believe.

As for implying blame toward individuals for experiencing oppression, I don’t believe I’ve said or implied anything of the sort! To confirm, I’m happy to agree with you that no one should ever be blamed for experiencing oppression….

Just because there are some statistics that show worse outcomes for certain situations for some races versus white British counterparts

“Some statistics”? The statistics are pervasive , consistent ,
cross-sectoral and stark with highly predictable patterns.
Of course racism isn’t the only factor and there are nuances- it doesn’t follow that racism isn’t any factor, or that racism is not structural.

“worse outcomes” - you think the police being 6.5x more likely to strip search a black child is an “outcome” and “correlation does not equal causation”. Nothing to see here?

I don’t know why I’m even bothering with this to be honest. On the one hand you seek to minimise and explain away stark objective evidence.
On the other , your motivations are clear- you are angry at the perceived “denigration” of white people caused by the simple acknowledgment of the realities of structural racism and how it harms racialised minorities.

Exactly this.

in shocked I’ve been basically told the family were right because I just have been “secretly a bit racists” by reprimanding the teen. Absolute bollox

First I hear about a pyramid of privilege. And I’m humoured you assume Hispanic. Funny world we live in.

You described yourself as Latino, I think.

This pyramid of privilege has passed me by too, but I guess that’s because of my privilege.