To think most men wouldn’t survive a year living the life of an average woman?

[ThatRealLimeBee]

The daily grind of sexism, safety worries, juggling expectations, emotional labour… Most men have no idea. AIBU to think they’d crumble under the load if they had to swap lives with us for a year?

Nope, just for the choices of SAHPs to be afforded the same societal respect from the government as they currently show working parents. The tide is turning though! 😁

You want the government to stop funding childcare because "it is crippling the country" and to stop "ramming nurseries down our throats"

If you take those things away, most women can't work anymore and are forced to give up work. It is proven and known that affordable childcare liberates women to be able to have their own ambitions, and you want that to be taken away.

That is not supporting choice in any way or just about wanting respect.

I care about what is best for babies and children, who don’t have any say in being born and who are too young to speak and advocate for their own genuine needs, than I do about adult wants and complaints.

Do you care about those babies who’s mothers can’t afford to not work, and rely on funded childcare to feed them?

Increasing benefits won’t touch the sides for some families. They need subsidised nurseries so that they can work, to feed those children that you’re referring to.

For clarity, I’m not one of them. Like I said before, we don’t use any childcare facilities and what we did use previously was limited and paid for. We’re fortunate.

Some of those I employ wouldn’t be able to feed and clothe their kids without working, and wouldn’t be able to work without childcare support. It’s those kids you’re forgetting about.

Not all children are safer in the home either. I worked with many, many children who were better cared for at school and nursery than they would have been at home.

I’m very much on the side of lower income families. All families, including single parents, should not be priced out of having children, having additional children, or looking after them themselves. The overall cost of living crisis and worsening international scene are ongoing, massive issue. Families should always have a right to afford to live on one income whilst raising children who are younger than school aged. Their choice is being removed by them being completely priced out of having one- that needs to stop, and will soon.

A child’s parents are best placed to decide what works best for them and the wider family.
It’s important that women have a choice. Access to childcare gives women that choice.
If childcare hadn’t been available to me I wouldn’t have had a child. It’s that simple.

Single mothers, who are therefore by nature single income households, often can’t afford to live on the salary and government packages that are available now.

There is no way of making it affordable for all of those people to not work, using state benefits to cover everything they need, without significantly impacting the public budget to an extent that we cannot sustain.

I don't know OP, I think plenty of men would do just fine. Some wouldn't, but then I know women who don't really cope either.

Would they do things differently? Sure, my kids would probably do fewer activities, but more work around the house, and more camping. Holidays would be less fancy but still fun. None of that is the same as not coping.

Out of interest, what are your views on working SENd parents?

I’m aware we’re a minority, but do your views on that subject… intensify?

@ThankYouNigel i agree with you that it would be a huge step forwards for women (and families - children and dads included) if parenting / care within family was recognised officially as a value to society. It’s insane that it isn’t. So that everyone had real choice over whether to work for a paid salary within a business setting or contribute to society through other ways. It just goes to show how much capitalism has got us and our politicians imo. I think eventually this will happen in years to come, when the birth rate is so low and they realise that they need people to have babies to reproduce a future workforce…. It would be excellent if women actually had to choice over how to spend their lives and what to prioritize or what balance they personally would like. I think it would be very beneficial for children and young peoples development.

The mistake I think many are making here is that they also are believing - as the capitalists want them to - that there is no value in family life, child rearing and family care. Of course there is.. it’s the foundations of all of us. I don’t know if it’s the education system which has given us this basis of ‘must work in paid employment or I’m a failure’ or if it’s societal expectation that it’s shameful to be a family focussed woman (or man); and that therefore you must be workshy.

I would like to see that sort of big political change in the future for families; where there is a better work life balance for parents’ and children. When that happens, and child rearing is seen as valuable to society, we will be closer to equality than we are now. So many of the pps raging at your comments defending their chores/activity at home/mothering don’t mention whether they feel supported by society as mothers or not: and what changes they would like to see to bring us more equality than we have today. I don’t think that parity is the same as equality- and what we have today is some parity with men. We will always be disadvantaged as women until that changes imo.

Happy to respond - I don’t need society’s approval of my mothering, cleaning, working or womaning.

I care about the approval of the people in my home, and those closest to me. Everyone else - not really interested.

We receive disapproval from society all day, every day. Our son is stimming too loudly, we’ve had to walk him out of a playground and that “looks” a certain way, he’s too big to be on that slide, he eats too messily. Blah blah.

If I cared what Joe Public thought of me and my family, I’d have stopped going outside a long time ago.

@SleeplessInWherever I don’t mean your personal validation by other people - I mean validation as in recognised as a legal status in the same way that employment or retirement is; like a separate bracket for domestic working whereby one could receive some sort of credits / payment / benefit. Recognition within the democratic system is what I mean.

I’m sorry you’ve experienced those things; people can be very ignorant. I would be happy one day if families had better societal support; it would be a huge benefit for all of society.

So I would guess (depending on the level and complexity of need) that you may need more external specialist support from the outset, and possibly need to earn more money to provide specialist equipment or access to specialists beyond what most parents need. I can also imagine your day-to-day parenting may be more intense and difficult, so work may provide some respite.

I haven’t done it myself, so others will know better. I have witnessed my neighbours opposite being regularly physically attacked by one of the children as they tried to help him into the car to transport him to various schools and places he needs help, which go way beyond what mainstream schools are providing. I’m amazed more help isn’t available for them actually, as it looks tough and they don’t get a break at any time of the day- they’ve told me no family member or friend would babysit for them as they couldn’t manage, for example. It’s certainly a shame if work is the only ‘break’ for such families.

Good for you for going out and ignoring people- you are your child have every right to be there!

There is not more government support available for these families because it costs a fortune and there is no money in the coffers to pay for it. My aunt has secured live in care for her severely autistic adult son who is too dangerous to stay at home now, 12,000 A WEEK it costs. Who's going to pay for that? Not you or the other working age adults who don't pay any tax. Back to the too much going out not enough coming in.

You sidestep the issue around women not being able to work without subsidised child care by saying you don't care about women's wants you only care about the children and everyone should be able to afford to stay at home and look after their children, I assume on benefits if they are single parents and they haven't got any else in the home working and earning money.

Serious question, do you think there should just be endless money coming from the government so we can all stay at home with our children and if so who do you think is going to pay for that if all the workers with children just abandon ship, stop paying tax and stay home?

And why don't you care about women's rights and their equality? Because barring women from the workforce and the opportunities paid employment presents for both independence and education opportunities because they should have to stay at home with their children if they don't have a rich husband to pay the nursery fees IS an attack on women's rights.

Does the UK have plenty of money? Arguably yes, we are one of the richest economies in the world.
Have recent governments distributed and prioritised how to spend that money wisely? Arguably not.
Do unpaid carers currently save them a fortune? You bet.
Instead of having a pop at thrifty economically inactive people, your annoyance might be better directed towards wealthy working individuals and rich, big businesses, who are experts at tax avoidance. Who know all the tricks to avoid paying tax, eg squirrelling money away in off-shore accounts. Oh but their immoral and criminal practices are fine, because they are working.
We are the least of the UK economy’s problems 😂

It’s hardly economically efficient for half the adult workforce to be out of action and looking after 1-2 kids. It’s never really been the case that that’s been the norm - most women have always worked and it was only middle class women who could properly stay at home. And in the past, children would have been working and earning in their early teens - now it’s not til mid 20s. It’s not sustainable for lots of adults to basically do no paid work and still imagine they contribute because their two children might enter the workforce after a long period of education and inactivity and if their children are girls, also become economically inactive at some point.

I’m bored now- as I said to a previous poster, let’s agree to disagree.

It's always going to be a no win situation for men in this argument. However, would you rather they'd sat back in peaceful protest and let Hitler occupy us?

When somebody like Putin suddenly decides to invade another country, other nations stand up in support and send their military assistance/financial aid to try and do what is 'ethical'. You have the vast majority of men in Ukraine taking up arms to fight. Not just military personnel like in most western wars but men that were accountants, IT managers, doctors, etc. One week sat in the office, next on the battlefield with a rifle in hand.

It must be terrifyingly for somebody that lived a fairly normal life up until that point - Ukraine wasn't exactly a third world country. The possibility of being captured by the Russians and Tortured to death so they can upload the video to the internet as a terror tactic. Maybe getting a bullet in the gut and dying an agonising death in the dirt with no ambulance anywhere to be seen.

This is the stuff of nightmares and whilst it's no doubt horrific for their wives and children too I feel the most for the men out there on the frontline. But feminists will always be able to say "oh, but it's all male violence. Nothing to do with us". They're right that it's caused by men but it's not these men.

This is where this gender stuff falls down for me by lumping all men together. A gay or black man somehow assumes a perverse manner of group culpability for the male violence enacted on him by the homophobic/racist thug stamping on his head in an unprovoked attack. Same with somebody paralysed in a wheelchair. They're still male and part of the demographic perpetrating male violence.

But as somebody said “People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.”

The people these rough men fight are always other men, but let's not pretend that we wouldn't be screwed if they didn't fight. If a group like the Nazis or Islamic extremists got into power how do you think it would pan out for women?

There are other distinctions aside from male/female. I'd imagine Nazi women like Irma Grese felt a lot more kinship with the male SS officers she knew than she did with the female resistance fighters working for the allies. The 'us' and 'them' isn't always male vs female and many feminists seem to deride the very men that fight to maintain their freedom of speech.

You can't justify your position you mean.

Again. Why don't you care about women's rights?

The right to work after becoming a mother is vital in securing equality. Being able to work opens opportunities for training, education, gaining skills, broadening perspectives, having influence in the world and the way it works. It is well known that forcing women to stay at home and not allowing them to participate in the work force takes power away from them and keeps them beholden to men, who have all the power. It is a tactic used by many men to oppress their wives in less equal cultures than ours. The right to be able to earn her own money and have financial freedom is given by subsidised child care. If a woman can never own anything unless a man gives it to her because she can't make her own money, she can never be equal. Subsidised child care gives women the freedom to be equal, yet you want that to be taken away and wave it away as "adults wants which you don't care about". You don't get to just wave away womens rights because you don't think they need them. So again @ThankYouNigel why don't you care about women's rights?

How dismissive and rude!

She's been rude and pretty passive aggressive in all her responses, which unfortunately is doing nothing for her cause!

This was nothing compared to the things she said on a previous under a different name!

I don’t personally require it to be recognised in the same way an employment or retirement, because it’s not the same.

Firstly, because you don’t retire from being a mother. Or resign, ideally.

I don’t think domestic work is the same as paid work, and doesn’t warrant benefits beyond what anyone else could access.

I personally believe that all who are able to be economically active, should be. There are some who can’t and won’t be able to, and supporting them comes from somewhere.

Pensions, disability benefits, statutory maternity.. they all come from somewhere. That somewhere, is economically active working adults.

If I’m honest, I also think it’s an excuse for laziness. Which is a biased view based on our circumstances.

If we can work full time, provide a high level of care for a disabled child, and not live in a hovel - people without the same challenges can manage a few hours of doing their bit.

Men are second only to god. Praise be.