Tenant issue

[Rosie8880]

Hi.

Have been renting to a tenant for 2 years and also extended AST for another year ending in summer next year. All good and fine, no hassle. This week two flats below were impacted by water emanating from my flat. The lower of the two has water marks/ damage to one ceiling, the flat below water has leaked to about 3 rooms - ceilings, carpets. plumbers have reported that it’s inconclusive and would need to do further investigations but say likely cause of a bath overflow. Tenant is worried as says this did not happen and is worried about further leaks. My flat is unscathed which I find strange if thankful, considering volume of water thought to have escaped. I will face claims from both flats which will be covered by insurance.

interested to hear what others would do as next steps.

Only if their fault though.

If its wesr and tear on your pipework that's not on the tenant (and I'm a landlord)

A question I have is…
if tenant did create the mess vis an accident - my view is ideally we forgive her and let her stay with a strong warning. My partner view is - the whole issue is a mess, neighbours are up in arms, she needs to go.

so even if it was an accident - we are at odds. This is my issue and I am trying to find ways to resolve it.

Yes - it’s a flat below and then a flat below that! The one right below is very damaged - floor to ceiling. The one below has one room of damage ceiling only. water travelled between two flats. So there just have been tons of water ? Plumbers couldn’t see any seal breaks on bath, the overflow circle thing was fine they said, tight. They checked under bathroom sink / no issues there. They opened panel on bath - no issues there as above.

That's a lot of water to make it through the flat into the lower one. There's no way if that volume of water spilled onto the floor of your flat there would be no water marks anywhere whatsoever imo.

Has the kitchen floor been checked? Under the sink and washing machine?

You need to have a dye test or the likes done on the overflow pipes and the drain pipes. Absolutely no way with that level of water travel you can just assume that your normally good tenant suddenly decided to turn the bathroom into a swimming pool (and managed to hide all evidence of it)

It doesn't need to be tonnes of water all at once though. It can be a constant trickle from a small split in a pipe that seals plasterboard , ceilings and then suddenly shows when saturated . I think it sounds very much like you are trying to make this a tenant issue.

corrwct only if their fault. What would your view be? Would you give them the yellow card rather than red?

A question I have is…
if tenant did create the mess vis an accident - my view is ideally we forgive her and let her stay with a strong warning. My partner view is - the whole issue is a mess, neighbours are up in arms, she needs to go.

so even if it was an accident - we are at odds. This is my issue and I am trying to find ways to resolve it.

Your issue first and foremost is to find out what actually happened

Forget the tenant and what happens next until you actually know.

If it turns out to be a leaking pipe, and if put money on that from everything you've said, then you will owe the tenant a massive apology, and the neighbours because it'll be your pipes that caused the issue.

Forget finding blame until you know what actually happened

And does the tiling continue completely under the bath? Often it doesn't to allow access to pipework

But what has this got to do with your tenant?

Christ alive.

No, a leak is not going to cause damp, mould, structural issues, irreparable devaluation. If houses fell to bits when they got wet we’d have no houses.

It will take time to dry and insurance may need to pay for dehumidifiers. Windows must be open to help things dry out. Ceilings may need replastering and painting.

If someone left taps on full for hours then 100% certain there will be something wet in your flat. Think about it - you’re saying your tenant could’ve ’mopped up’ the overflow in the flat the water was overflowing into, but your neighbours are traumatised and you’re talking structural damage? Makes no sense.

What does make sense for that is a significant leak in the floor of your flat. OR you’re making out the damage to your neighbours is way worse than it is.

Has anyone turned the taps on in the bath/run the washing machine since this all happened?

The volume of water to go two floors in one go from a single overflowing bath would have to be large.

Far far more likely to be pipes leaking. Soaking everything, then drying with a bit of water sitting there, then soaking, then drying, then soaking, then drying and then one day it just giving in and the water sat there and the new water going through.

Agreed here. Yes sink and washing machine are checked but worth doing again plus dye test.

should it be that it is a pipes or other fault in some ways I’d be relieved - no more of this weeks long drama btw neighbours, claims would be addressed and pipes or whatnot fixed. Eveyine could go back to living as they were before, no need for legal nor new tenants nor evictions.

if the tenant tho did leave the taps on/ accidentally and flooded the flats below and tests come back as conclusive this is what happened - as an accident, in this case this is where my head gets fuzzy. I don’t want the drama of kicking them out and having to get new tenants in or selling - but then it’s quite a mistake! Help.

Well what does it say in their tenancy agreement about what is their responsibility? Accidents happen.

yes showers have been had in my flat - apprantly all fine. Ditto downstairs. We have wooden and tiled floors in my flat so there isn’t that absorption of water that a carpet would have. Do have carpet in one room only. Downstairs they do have carpets and these were wet.

My view would to be to find out the cause first. I suspect very much if isn't even the tenant at fault at all but a hidden pipe issue where a joint has rusted through or an old pipe split. Especially where there is no visible damage in your own flat.

Actually OP you are not in a position to decide what’s fair. Call your insurer ASAP! They will take care of investigating, coordinating and paying for repairs. They will fight it out on your behalf if necessary. You are making this way harder than it needs to be.

Thank you - I guess the issue here is there has been no leaks or issues since or before “the event” with use. As another commentator says, insurance will get into all of this.

But what I mean is, if there is no evidence in the bathroom that the bath has overflowed then you can’t blame her. It could be part of the pipe from the bath that is above the flat below that is leaking.

Our last house had a leak in the bathroom, seal on bath had gone. Not only was there evidence of water damage to the floor under the bath, but the plasterboard walls under the bath and water had soaked onto the floor boards in the spare room next to the bathroom. As well as the water stains on the ceiling in the kitchen below. Water normally causes a lot of damage and if there was a lot of damage to the flats below then I find it very hard to believe that there wouldn't be evidence under the bath (unless you have a wet room then there wouldn't be a problem anyway). The damage to the ceiling to the kitchen was less then anywhere else, especially as water tends to be soaked up quickly by materials that aren't waterproof. If it's just floorboards under the bath then there should be evidence of water stains, if not the it must be leaking pipework.

I've damaged furniture before now by spilling a drink, even when cleaning it up straight away.

no more of this weeks long drama

Weeks long?

if the tenant tho did leave the taps on/ accidentally and flooded the flats below and tests come back as conclusive this is what happened - as an accident, in this case this is where my head gets fuzzy. I don’t want the drama of kicking them out and having to get new tenants in or selling - but then it’s quite a mistake! Help.

Accidents happen. It's why you have insurance.

You wouldn't expect your insurance company to ask your mortgage company to boot you out if you made a mistake. You shouldn't hold your tenants to a higher standard imo.

Plus if it was a genuine error (and my money is still on pipe leak) this tenant is likely to be the most careful tenant with regard to the bath. A new tenant could easily do the same.

In a 5 year old flat the overflow should have coped considerably better if the taps were accidentally left on.

No insurance will charge you for the exploratory work and the repair to any work pipes/joints if it is just aa maintenence issue but insurance will pay for any accidental damage or consequential damage suffered by either you or the neighbours.

Agree - it’s been a week and do think have lost a bit of time here with investigations - some of evidence should ir have been an accident of leaving bath taps on May now have disappeared. If it’s faulty pipes etc that’s much more straightforward.

You can’t if you have no evidence.

The other thing with water ingress is that is will flow to lowest point and weakest point so even if it appears in the ceiling of the flat below in one room it may not have originated immediately above. I think you need to instruct a better plumber more willing to do proper investigative work.

This is why I’m so grateful we were lucky to get a council home so I don’t have to deal with landlords. You sound like you’ve already made your mind up and it seems as though you’re looking for an excuse to evict this tenant. If you do, given all the evidence that the bath didn’t overflow (dry tiles, dry underneath bath etc) I hope they take you to
court over it.

Hi - so insurance won’t pay for exploratory work + repair work to pipes if that is the cause? But if accident will pay out? Hmmm if this is the case this could explain a lot while my very money minded partner is so happy it seems to go down the accident route!!!!