Tenant issue

[Rosie8880]

Hi.

Have been renting to a tenant for 2 years and also extended AST for another year ending in summer next year. All good and fine, no hassle. This week two flats below were impacted by water emanating from my flat. The lower of the two has water marks/ damage to one ceiling, the flat below water has leaked to about 3 rooms - ceilings, carpets. plumbers have reported that it’s inconclusive and would need to do further investigations but say likely cause of a bath overflow. Tenant is worried as says this did not happen and is worried about further leaks. My flat is unscathed which I find strange if thankful, considering volume of water thought to have escaped. I will face claims from both flats which will be covered by insurance.

interested to hear what others would do as next steps.

Is a bath with an overflow area/ pipe something that exists so that should someone leave plug in and leave taps running no flooding etc would happen?

Did the plumbers mean it was the bath overflow (the hole where the water goes out), or that the bath had overflowed? Seems like two different things. Surely an overfilled bath would leave the floor at and damaged?

Either way, tenants are humans, mistakes occur, and you have insurance. Surely not a valid reason to make your tenant homeless. This sort of argument is exactly why people hate landlords!

Yes and that’s what the weird thing is - no damage to or marks of water anywhere - unless tenant caught it after a hour or two, mopped it all up, but didn’t realize the water has leaked into floors below.

If water was running for an hour or two then the damage would be massive.

The bathroom floor would have been saturated, if it sat on the floor that's how the water got through to downstairs then skirtings would have been soaking, any mats would have been soaked, the bath panel wet and the chances of none creeping under the bath wiuld be ting!

Also if the tenant left it unsupervised until there was such a pool of water the carpet or flooring outside the bathroom door would have got wet when the door was opened.

Your plumbers haven't actually said anything conclusive whatsoever.

Is a bath with an overflow area/ pipe something that exists so that should someone leave plug in and leave taps running no flooding etc would happen?

Surely after your dealings with the plumbers you know what the overflow is?

The overflow pipe in the bath would normally deal with excess water (either taps on or movement of water when you're in) unless the taps were running at a very very high rate.

If you don't know what that is does that mean it hasn't been checked? Several of us on the thread have detailed leaks caused by the overflow pipe leaking or being blocked... it's a very common thing to happen.

No I don’t ! I have this place with my partner - she understands it all. I’m in here as want unfiltered opinions and advice as it’s such a serious issue. Do you mean that even if for eg I plugged bath turned taps on at full blast, for an hour or more there is a pipe or something that should drain the water away, even with plug in?

or if bath is left running for hour + would then a flooding occur regardless?

Hmm. But IF this was the case - after a day or more wouldn’t all the floors, skirting, door be dry?
if a tenant mopped it all up and cleaned it up too - there wouldn’t be any evidence? The fly in ointment for me is the plywood under the bath which plumbers looked at saw it was dry and said that’s not unusual for a flooding incident a day or so ago…

Bath flooded / overflowed over edge of bath and out of bath - that’s what plumbers said.

I need to balance and assess if tenant is a risk not just to my property but to others, vs risk of any new tenant doing the same thing; vs selling up basically. I have her signed up to AST til summer next year and our original view was to just keep renting it out - it was going pretty smoothly. I would half like to keep her there - half think it’s a risk - hence listening to all of you.

• Hmm. But IF this was the case - after a day or more wouldn’t all the floors, skirting, door be dry? if a tenant mopped it all up and cleaned it up too - there wouldn’t be any evidence? The fly in ointment for me is the plywood under the bath which plumbers looked at saw it was dry and said that’s not unusual for a flooding incident a day or so ago…*

Wood that is soaked, which it would be if there was water pooling on it for a large amount of time (to allow it to trickle down and cause the large amount of damage to two separate properties as you've said happened), takes a long time to dry.

The fact under the bath is bone dry is very bizarre. No water marks anywhere in the bathroom, no damp skirting where the water leaked through etc is very strange.

As many of us on the thread have said - given there is zero evidence of water in the bathroom it sounds very much like a leaking pipe somewhere.

If there's no evidence of a leak is the bath being the cause just been an assumption? What about the toilet or sink?
Has the kitchen floor been looked at to ensure it's not the sink or washing machine?

The overflow on my bath drains at the same speed that the taps fill so overflowing is impossible. I think that isn’t always the case with very old baths/plumbing or old pipes that are clogged with limescale but those issues would be your responsibility if you have unsuitable fittings or old plumbing.

I think you are mistaken in how much water it takes to cause a lot of damage. When we had an issue with the seal around the plug hole, the amount of water that came gushing through the ceiling in multiple places looked like the whole bath had been tipped out in one go and the damage was huge. It was actually only a couple of buckets at most, the bath was still almost full.

Basically your current theory is that the water neatly spilled out of the bath, onto a gap and down into the other flats without touching anything in the bathroom...

So a large amount of water but zero evidence or damage in the very room it supposedly flooded in.

Does that sound remotely logical to you?

I'd put money on your overflow/waste pipe leaking and this not remotely being the fault of your tenant.

Nope it doesn’t - my understanding is Taps where left running for ages - this overflowed onto the bathroom - maybe the hall? (No carpet - wooden floors) - maybe it was all mopped up etc - leaving no trace in surface of damage…the water they say travelled downwards, that the floor below is always much more impacted. I guess water travelling downwards would gather more velocity and damage would be worse… the fact there was enough water to get to floor below and then the floor below that to create big water marks on ceiling below boggles my mind…

and why would 4 plumbers say this is logistical / usual - it totally floored me as defies logic to me as you say.

something else must be amiss here - even if tenant did cause overflowed water across bathroom floor etc and more - are you saying that the bath overflow pipe thing would catch it all even hours of water flowing at full pelt / turned fully on? Thanks again for time on this it’s appreciated

I think you and the other residents really need to get a sense of perspective. This is an annoyance, absolutely, but you’re talking about evicting an otherwise good tenant for one potential (and not proven) mistake? What’s the guarantee the next tenants don’t cause issues? Things could be much, much worse. Accidents happen, it’s what insurance is for, it really doesn’t need to be this much drama.

This flat is maybe 5 years old…

We had this from flat above - problem with pipes under the bath so nothing the tenants above were doing but flooded ours and flat below. Insurance sorted it all including appointing plumbers and decorators so don't think you need to do anything apart from what your insurance advise. Also can tenant use the bath at present? If not maybe you need to get insurance to arrange them somewhere else to stay if that is going to be continuing

Thank you - but I know the neighbour doenstairs is very very worried - this is his retirement home and he’s put all his savings into this - he loves his home and he just is very worried about if this situation is going to cause damp and mould across the whole building (we are converted flats) and he’s going to be out of pocket / his home will be ruined. There could be structural damage from this - that’s the view from
Building management. So I know what you mean but it’s a lot of damage

The tenant is fine my fist is fine. The damage is flats below.

OP people have said over and over again that this is probably not a tenant issue, yet you're still apparently 50/50 on evicting them! It seems like your mind is made up and it's a waste of time for people to try to respond further - I suspect you just want someone to back you up on evicting them/charging them for damage you can't prove they caused!

Nope it doesn’t - my understanding is Taps were left running for ages - this overflowed onto the bathroom - maybe the hall? (No carpet - wooden floors) - maybe it was all mopped up etc - leaving no trace in surface of damage…the water they say travelled downwards, that the floor below is always much more impacted. I guess water travelling downwards would gather more velocity and damage would be worse… the fact there was enough water to get to floor below and then the floor below that to create big water marks on ceiling below boggles my mind…

Hang on - are the two flats that are damaged one below each other?

So

Rather than

Your flat
Flat 1 Flat 1

If it's three flats on top of each other then is the middle flat damaged from floor to ceiling?

something else must be amiss here - even if tenant did cause overflowed water across bathroom floor etc and more - are you saying that the bath overflow pipe thing would catch it all even hours of water flowing at full pelt / turned fully on? Thanks again for time on this it’s appreciated

The overflow should catch the vast majority of the water if the taps were left on.

My bath has been left accidentally with the taps on (at a normal bath filling rate) for an hour and not a drop reached the floor.

So

your Flat
flat 1
Flat 2

Nope the opposite - my partner is gung ho about get rid - I’m not. I feel this is an accident and what I want to hear is balanced view both in agreement with her and those not. I genuinely thought in mumsnet I would get most people sharing yup tenant caused damage get them out (my partner view) so I am quite comforted by the fact so many are saying even if it were an accident,if hours of water, the bath overflow should have caught the water, plus it is an accident and these things happen, plus leaks elsewhere. I’m trying to see all sides here but I’d personally if cards clean - I’d like to see tenant stay.

Yes - it’s a flat below and then a flat below that! The one right below is very damaged - floor to ceiling. The one below has one room of damage ceiling only. water travelled between two flats. So there just have been tons of water ? Plumbers couldn’t see any seal breaks on bath, the overflow circle thing was fine they said, tight. They checked under bathroom sink / no issues there. They opened panel on bath - no issues there as above.

Did your plumber say it was not an overflow in your apartment? If so it cannot be down to the tenant.

Plumber said it was likely cause of user misuse aka leaving taps running, bath plugged in, water flows everywhere.

Sounds like a leaking pipe from under the bath, this is what happened to me (but it was a house so more obvious). Sounds like you had a dodgy plumber. An inspection would show easily if it was the bath overflowing, the bathroom would have been flooded, the floor ruined and probably the floor outside the bathroom would have damage. This wouldn’t have anything to do with the seal or the sink, it’s the pipe that flows from the bath.