To think you don’t catch a butterfly and take it round M&S

[FanofLeaves]

Was just picking up a few bits in M&S and there was a girl about 8 years old or so swinging one of those butterfly net thingies off her arm. On closer inspection I saw she had one in there (not the ones you send away for, although that would be bad enough, one that had obviously been procured organically)

Her mum was busy looking at something so I said to the girl ‘oh! What a pretty butterfly. That’s a large white. I except you’re going to let it go after you’ve finished your shopping, aren’t you?’

The mum came over beaming presumably ready to hear a comment about what a fun summer holiday activity this all is, and said ‘no, we’ll take it home, keep it for a few days and observe it. It flew straight into the net so we had this ready to pop it straight into!’

‘I said ‘well I’m sure it would have been preferred to be observed in nature, where it was, not caught in a net and taken round the shops. Don’t you think it’s a bit cruel?’

Anyway she was visibly annoyed, and said ‘it’s fine. My children are learning about nature! We know what it eats!’

Anyway she steered her child away from me and said some people are just very joyless and bitter.

Yeah I know I probably sound like a busy body but I can’t bear it when parents tell their kids it’s ok to just take stuff out of nature for their own amusement. Why is it ok to do this? It’s so Victorian, to capture a creature to just look at it, no thought for the poor thing at all. Don’t get me started on why they still sell butterfly nets 😭

Just a shot in the dark here, but are you a man?

It is really cruel.

How does she feed a butterfly nectar? How does the butterfly drink the nectar from the flowers she gives it unless she knows what butterflies drink what type of nectar?

Butterflies live for 3-4 weeks so it will probably die of starvation

I think @ThatDaringEagle must be to have such views on feminism

YANBU some people are just a bit odd. Sorry but it's true. You can't do much about it though so just focus on your own life. DD1 went to school with a girl whose mum let her collect insects in a tub then take them inside and play with them all killing most. Just weird but all you can do is say something politely and hope it goes in their head

OP, you should be careful. Some people are absolutely unhinged, have knives, etc. You never know who you're approaching or who they might be with that might be the problem. People have been killed with one punch.

I’m not sure what you hoped to achieve by rudely accosting strangers in a store. In the grand scheme of things you have probably done nothing to change the outcome for the individual butterfly and potentially alienated the mother from listening to someone else on the topic. Supermarkets are full of items that people buy which are ethically dubious/ controversial; meat, fish, dairy, mono crops, items produced by workers in poor conditions, items that are out of season or have high miles to get to us, items covered in single use plastic- the very fact you are in a supermarket means some of your life choices are having a detrimental impact on global issues.
Whereas that mother indulging that observation of the butterfly ignited a passion in her child which goes on to inspire her to make much more meaningful choices about how she lives her life, over all reducing harm- I mean we don’t know, but really, if you have not adjusted your life style to have neutral impact on the planet then to accost someone else about their life choices is hypocritical. It’s really about you having a feeling of superiority over others. If the topic is important to you then work positively on getting your message across start a conservation club or something, get kids involved so they will share the message. Don’t accost a stranger and expect a good result.

@Squishyforever

OP wasn’t rude. And a child doesn’t need to imprison and kill a butterfly to appreciate the environment and make environmentally aware choices.

hth.

I quite agree with the stance re the butterfly. Personally I think it is rude underhand and deceitful to approach a child under the eyes of their parent all smiling then to change tone to lecturing. But my point is 1)Accosting anyone that way is not helpful in getting them onside with your point. 2) Why target them? It is simply because you can see the animal that you have compassion for it, but what about the person buying peanut butter made with palm oil, why are you not having a go at them (palm oil does a lot of harm to the forests of Borneo). What about dairy? There are ethical concerns re animal welfare in that industry ( uh oh, did OP say she bought feta? So the butterfly’s welfare is greater than the sheep/ goat and possibly cows that have suffered to bring her that? And is feta from the uk? Hmmm- no- so unnecessary food miles for her to enjoy that. Sorry, but let those without guilt cast the first rock. I won’t be back to check replies. I’m just trying to challenge the thought processes here. I agree with people re the butterflies welfare, I happen to think that the method of addressing it was counter productive.

Unless that child is doing something which is directly impacting you then the way that child is being parented is none of anyone else’s business. A child carrying a butterfly around M&S would not count as something which directly impacts someone else, regardless of thoughts/opinions anyone else might have about that. People can share those thoughts or opinions with family or friends for sure, everyone can enjoy the story and the sense of moral outrage, but civilised people do not approach other people’s children with an ethical intervention without invitation.

Who made you the pollinator police and granted you the authority to stage uninvited ethical interventions on other people’s children?

If you don't want people to comment on your child's behaviour, parent them correctly.

And 'all lives matter'?

You make your comment to the parent - not the child. People who go straight to the child are usually on on a power trip.

The parent is already an irredeemable dickhead. The child might not yet be.

Carrying a butterfly is not ‘behaviour’. Hurling themselves round M&S being a nuisance would be a ‘behaviour’. Adults sharing unwanted opinions with other people’s children would be a ‘behaviour’. Just because someone has an opinion does not entitle them to impose that opinion on others, it’s rude. When done to other people’s children it’s wildly inappropriate.

You can't actually stop people from expressing their opinions about your parenting.

If someone has got to adulthood without understanding that you don't capture wildlife and carry it round a shop, it's reasonable to assume there is a lot else they don't understand too, and so talking directly to them is probably a waste of time.

If people insist on sharing their unwanted opinions, you are right they cannot be stopped. The ability to read a room is not a gift shared by everyone, sadly. I’m curious what the objective of such an exchange would be though - the listener is not listening and cares even less, so there’s no potential for enlightenment or behaviour change, so why do it all? What’s the win in such a situation

I totally agree with you. Unfortunately a lot of people just don’t get it and think children activities involve lots of taking animals and insects out of their natural habitats and caging them (or in this case “netting” them) for our own observement and enjoyment. This then sadly results in adults who simply cannot understand why another adult would care about such a thing (hence some of the comments on this thread…). I’m so glad there are people who care out there! Sometimes I feel like we are a dying breed. So classic that someone brought veganism into this too 🙃 it really didn’t need to go there….

Some people care enough about animals or insects to stop cruel behaviour when they see it. Things don’t need to simply impact you directly in order for you to do something about them….

Some people care enough about their children to object to complete strangers accosting them as they go about their day. Caring about animals does not give anyone the right or obligation to interfere with other people’s children.

I've listened to an interview with an entomologist, and he was surprisingly open to the idea of children getting an odd beatle/insect/... home even if it means it dies in the end.

His reasoning was that prolonged interaction and possibly the death makes the child see it as something real, alive - and they will know it forever, they will make informed decisions taking the small lifes into account their whole life.

The best environmentalist aren't people who never touched an earthworm. The best environmentalist are people who touched them, observed them, maybe even dissected them and became fascinated by them.

Of course it doesn't advocate for intentional cruelty. Just acknowledging that the insects (and similar) are dying left and right and that one life spent on child's curiosity can serve the wild life more than strict no touching.

That's why talking to the child is the better idea.

Even better if it enrages the parent.

Sorry killing a butterfly isn't a crime, AFAIK. Just like slaughtering a cow for meat isn't a crime. Butterfly isn't more important than human child.

Harassing a minor in public is a great way to get arrested. Other people’s children are none of your concern.

😆 you’ve no idea how much I appreciated that laugh today. Thank you.

I live in South London. The police aren’t coming out to M&S over a woman making a comment to a child. For a start how quickly do you think they could get there, the entire exchange was about 25 seconds long 🤣🤣