To wonder why there isn’t more uproar about Sudan?

[AngeloMysterioso]

Sudan- where the actual worst humanitarian crisis in the world is happening right now. War, starvation, displacement of millions of people, suffering on a scale like nowhere else in the world. And yet it’s being virtually ignored. There have been maybe half a dozen threads about Sudan on mumsnet in the last year or so, compared with dozens discussing Israel/Gaza. On social media, for every one post I see mentioning Sudan, I have probably seen 20 or more about Gaza. Save The Children, for example, has posted seventeen times about Gaza in the past month and only once about Sudan.

Why? Why is Sudan being ignored while such a glaring light is being shone on Gaza? Is it because there are no Jewish people to blame for the Sudanese conflict? Or because the people suffering are black?

What do you want done about Sudan?
The Israel-Gaza situation is exacerbating global instability. Sudan is more of a regional issue. There is no point pretending it is really for humanitarian reasons and not self-interest that there is massively greater interest in what happens to Gaza and how Israel is behaving. Israel-Gaza is bad news for the world, Sudan is just another appalling conflict amongst a depressingly large number of conflicts going on in the world and a depressingly large number of humanitarian crises. Why are you focusing on Sudan and Gaza more than other conflicts and crises?

It’s very clear to me:

1. no Jews no news, and
2. they’re black.

Both of these reasons are:

1. racist, and
2. terrible.

The longest period of peace in the Sudan's history was 1899-1956.
The same period during which the British ruled it .
The Sudan Political Service (which ran it) required the highest entry qualifications of any branch of the Civil or Diplomatic Services.

Long live colonisation?

I don’t think semantics matter. What is for sure is that too many people are dying and suffering.

I haven’t seen it in the news. So I had no idea.

I have been seeing lots about illegal immigration’s and reporters in Calais are saying it’s predominantly Sudanese at the moment. So that makes sense now.

Semantics are extremely important when it comes to the law.

'Genocide' was coined by a holocaust survivor, Raphael Lemkin. Using the Greek 'genos' - race or tribe and the Latin 'cide' - to kill. Lemkin campaigned to have genocide recognised which eventually led to the Genocide Convention.

Article Two of the convention defines genocide as "any of the following acts committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such":

Killing members of the group

Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group

Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part

Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group

Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group

The convention also imposes a general duty on states that are signatories to "prevent and to punish" genocide which is why allies have been reluctant to acknowledge it.

As you can see there's no number given for the amount of people killed, in fact death doesn't necessarily factor. The key element is the intent to destroy.

Again, I know what genocide means. Despite the ugly rhetoric from a couple of vile members of the Knesset, there are very few Jews or Israelis who want to get rid of the Palestinians. In fact it seems to have been the opposite according to their governments charter. Of course you can find extremists but they are far fewer than the rational majority of Israelis who want to be free from fear in their homeland alongside whoever else is willing to share it with them. 56 previously diverse countries in the world have been occupied and forceably colonised by Islam, yet the one Jewish country is being targeted for obsessional propaganda and annihilation. As I said before, in the West you see only what you are shown. The ME knows the truth and it will come out eventually.
Israel has no need of Gaza, it has been Judenrein for 20 years. Full blown ethnic cleansing!!! They just want to live in peace and not to be targeted continually for existing.

Whilst I agree both are absolutely hideous situations for the many innocent people living those nightmares, I see the chaos and degradation unfolding right here in the U.K. on our streets and in our towns and can’t help but feel we have enough of our own problems to deal with.

Some countries and political situations will never change no matter how outraged we may be. The U.K. has plenty of issues that demand our outrage and worry, think financial catastrophes, housing crisis, stagnant wages, poor education, ailing healthcare, significant drop in standards of our high streets and town centres.

We’re not facing warlords or extremism yet, but a few more years of this decay and the rot will well and truly have set in with no going back.

I have donated through my employer’s charity matching scheme. I wish I could do more.

Comparing it to Gaza isn’t valid. In Gaza, you have a David v Goliath situation, where one side is given blank checks and unlimited weapons by the USA. And the UK loves an underdog, which Palestinians are.

Because it is not a thing that isfashionable for people to virtue signal about.

If you know what genocide is, you'll see that it's currently being perpetrated by Israel.

Do you have evidence that Israel is abiding by international law? You say we only see propaganda in the West. From what we know, tens of thousands of civilians have been slaughtered. Infrastructure has been annihilated, aid is being withheld, soldiers are using starving children for target practice and there are plans to herd survivors into a mass concentration camp. It's believed that Israelis have settled illegally and bullied people off their land.

Can you show me the information you have? The evidence that none of this is true, it's propaganda and Israel have done everything in their power to protect the civilians.

Speak for yourself, I earn enough for myself and my family, I’m happy to give some extra to countries in need, not UK charities which are amply funded.

Exactly. An Israeli soldier (under anonymity) admitted to Sky News that Israel is not abiding by the law and killing civilians.

Well would you believe Israeli sources?

Independent sources would be good as we both know about war propaganda. The problem is Israel haven't allowed journalists to report and think the UN is a 'cesspit of antisemitism' so it's very difficult for people to get in to monitor the situation. It's an unusual step for people who are abiding by international law, to ban reporters and other officials.

However the Red Cross and other aid agencies like Oxfam are in there, perhaps reports from them?

There are multiple reasons, I’ve tried to summarise below. But mostly I think it triggers us because we are complicit and we are bombarded by horrifying images every day in a way that we’re not in Sudan.

• there’s no doubt there’s a racial bias at play here, there’s also a long history of complex African conflicts and suffering which leads to compassion fatigue and hopelessness in us
• Both sides in Sudan are on the whole equally matched, unlike the “David vs Goliath” narrative of Gaza which plays into the good vs evil narrative that makes for a compelling story
• Israel has full membership of the UN and is a signatory to the 1949 Geneva Conventions, whilst Sudan also is a signatory the RSF and SAF are seen as not state actors which creates a lower bar for outrage.
• Sudan’s institutions have collapsed (there’s no legal framework or independent judiciary) so in a way they're seen as less accountable. Israel is seen as part of the rules-based international order so when it breaks those rules, it triggers far more noise. Israel is held accountable under international law for its military conduct in a way we could never hope for in Sudan.
• The U.K. and US are directly involved in Gaza (U.K. supplies weapons and drones, US gives $4bn a year a vetoes UN resolutions) so we are complicit and our taxes are funding this war.
• SA brought a genocide case against Israel to the ICJ. Whilst no genocide has been declared yet by the UN there has been a ruling that there is a plausible risk and arrest warrants have been issued against leaders of Israel (and Hamas). A genocide case has been brought against Sudans differing forces, not against the country itself. Unlike Israel.

Same here only I lean more towards the concept of charity starts at home.

Is the UK seeing starvation like the Sudan?

Don’t even pretend that Western racists prefer muslim Palestinians to all jewish people and that’s why such a fuss is being made about Israel’s behaviour in Gaza and the West Bank. People expect better from Israel, because they already expect so little from the Arab world and want to see Israel as different and better, not equally grubby, so as to justify its insertion into the Middle East by the West in the first place. It’s racism and anti-Islamic feeling that makes the US continue to be so incredibly supportive of a corrupt, racist Israeli regime - it would rather its preferred flavour of corrupt racists over more anti-Western, muslim Arabs, terrorists or not. It’s embarrassing for the West that Israel is so publicly attempting to get rid of a problem by treating all Palestinians as though they are all Hamas terrorists or subhuman fodder for target practice.

I applaud what you are doing.

it occurs to me that one thing we can all do is ensure that investments in our name (pensions/ISAs etc) are invested ethically and not used to support weapons companies or technology, this realistically means lower returns for ourselves but is the only real power we have if we care.

The other thing would be to spend ethically, buying fair trade and avoiding buying products from countries that act unethically. Fair trade means that workers cannot exploited by oppressive regimes.

There is almost constantly a humanitarian crisis. And the media tend to only focus on one hot potato issue and then move onto the next thing. It's never been a reflection of what's going on in the world, just what the media chooses to highlight for whatever purpose/agenda.

To be fair I don’t think you get to dictate where people put their money or compassion. Anything charity, for me goes towards children/the oceans. I don’t care where the children are from. The oceans are pretty important to me.

You’re obviously doing your bit for the Sudan. That’s great.

It’s not me that’s trying to dictate to anyone, I was responding to the person who said the UK should look after people in the UK.

You’ve exacerbated the comment massively. Don’t let that stop you trying to convince me I read it wrong.

Cancer charities? Animal charities? Homeless? Mental health? Parkinson’s? They are all so amply funded why would anyone donate? That was what you said. That was where I objected to your comment.