To ask for help over my children's behaviour

[Imissgoldengrahams]

I can't lie I'm at my wits end. I have 4 children
In the past 24 hours my 8 year old has stolen money out of my suitcase (Not long back from holiday so haven't unpacked) and gone over to the shop and got sweets
She took pens upstairs and has drawn all over her pillow and her sheet.

Two days after we got back from holiday she had a friend in the house to play, she let this kid through her brand new lego (from the aforementioned holiday) out of the window and now the bits are lost and you can't build it back up

Another friend she has, will come in and take everything out of her cupboard, on hangers and my daughter just let's her, they chuck the clothes about her room. So I've banned her from coming bsck in

They found my partners permanent marker (by going through his work bag) and they've drawn all over our kitchen chairs with their names and various numbers

I'm really struggling, I don't know what to do. They go out to play and they end up throwing stones at the house, so they get grounded.

They hit each other all of the time, they kick and spit at each other or on the walls

I don't know what to do anymore. If I ask why they've done something, I just get 'dunno'

He is my partner
The person looking after them is a family member

Honestly I'd keep it really simple.

• Friends are not allowed in the house (for now)
• If other kids are getting desserts /sweets / whatever she doesnt up to value of money stolen.
• bedsheets are washed but not replaced. Pen marks make it ugly but not unusable.
• all pens etc are removed from general access
• Toddler principles apply. Remove access to things that they demonstrate they will misuse.

Find out what's painful for her and make it work for you. Remove internet and or tv, remove toys, sweet treats, whatever.
And stay super calm amd firm but immovable.

I'd consider behaviour board for everyone not just 8 yr old. We have one amd include ourselves.

See we do all this anyway
She hasn't had her tablet since her friend did that to her lego, maybe an unfair punishment because it wasn't her herself but its almost like she doesn't care
She hasn't even asked for it
What's a behaviour board?

When mine were little ( both SEN) actions had consequences, if they helped tidy or behaved well we had a treat, screen time, a movie afternoon with popcorn and i praised them, if they misbehaved, they had to tidy the mess etc and I would explain that their choices had made me sad, after they had tidied I would say thank you for tidying the mess you made, and ask what have we learnt? I was a teacher and this was similar to what I did with my class. One of mine was an early riser, he had a bag of things he could do till the house was awake, and was praised if he played quietly, we had a sticker chart for right choices with a treat for 5 stars, if he didn't I would explain why it was unfair to others. I rarely shouted, this was the whole family approach and it worked, its worth a try, I suggest this as she seems to cope at school

The person looking after them clearly isn't supervising well enough. They need to step up or you need to find different childcare.
Your kids need some sort of structure to their day.
You can't ground kids of that age, keeping them inside will only make things worse. You (or whoever is looking after them) need to get them out the house and engage with them more. Take them to the park, bake. Doesn't have to be all day or even every day, but they clearly can't continue to be left to their own devices.

What structure does the person in charge of them put in place for the day? It's not really fair to expect children that age to keep out of mischief if actually there's no structure to their day and they're just waiting for you to get back to work eventually.

Can you think of safe places that they can take all four children? The local (fenced) playground? Could the oldest one (10) be paid a few quid to help keep an eye on the younger ones?

Really tough to put boundaries and discipline in place if you’re at work all day long. (Not blaming you for this.)

The issue I think is that a family member will supervise, but they won’t parent because they aren’t the parent.

Might be worth sitting down with your husband and writing up a list of house rules, with rewards and punishments. Maybe a star chart? Get them some chores. Praise them for good behaviour, it can be as simple as telling them how happy and proud you are of them for xyz, with eye contact and a smile, then maybe a big hug. Reward chart could be pocket money to go to the shop at the end of the week. Punishments could be not getting that pocket money. Or restricting screen time.

Once you’ve done that, try and chat to the family member who’s looking after them and get them on board with the reward chart. Don’t expect them to discipline the kids, just to tell you how their behaviour has been so you can act appropriately. Give them a notebook to write down good behaviour and bad behaviour so you have something to go on.

Try and get some structured activities in the day too, if the family member is on board. Colouring books, box cake mix, craft kits. Get her helping to make her own lunch or snacks. Even making the littler ones some snacks or getting them a drink. So when things look like they’re getting a bit hairy, redirect her attention to something focused and rewarding.

Discipline - Communication is key. A calm but firm chat about the bad behaviour - why you don’t steal/throw clothes out the window, why it’s wrong and why you are disappointed (in the behaviour, not them). Shouting never works, it just ends up escalating. You can’t discipline an unregulated child. You can’t discipline if you’re unregulated yourself.

Hope this helps. It does sound to me like you have a lot on your plate. Don’t expect miracles, and changing things will be hard work as you have to be consistent, but things will change!

Remember to praise the good, eye contact, smile, big hug. “I’m proud of you baby, you did really good today.”

Like minds!

You need to set up activities, if the person supervising doesn't have much initiative.

Morning - a trip to the playground or park, buy some new balls/spinners, some large chalks and bubbles if you can afford it.
Back home for snack.
Play with toys.
Lunch

Afternoon - play in the garden (if you have one). Some sort of low-mess activity - mess-free colouring, kinetic sand.

TV/quiet play time until dinner.

I did buy them chalk, they took them outside in the rain and stomped all over them
Unfortunately I don't have enough time to take them out, I'm trying to get ready for work
And the family member has a disability so can't take them out

Then you need different childcare. Your children are too young to be left to their own devices all day. You're lucky it's only things they are breaking honestly.

I think it's a case of the devil makes work for idle hands to be honest. She sounds like she needs lots of things to keep her busy.

If she's been drawing and writing, can she put a scrap book together of pictures she has done, or write some stories? There's lots of ideas for these kinds of projects online if you can't think of any.

She could set up a treasure hunt for her siblings.

I mean Summer and gardens and nothing to do - you need a lot of imagination if you can't access kids clubs.

Can the family member do activities with them inside? As a priority, they need some structure.

You have a family member with a disability which prevents them going out looking after 4 children 10 & under all day long? It’s no the wonder they are up to no good OP, I’m a grown adult and I’d go crazy stuck in the house all day. You need to find alternative childcare, now.

I have to agree with the alternative childcare. Your dc need more stimulation than they are currently getting, including I suspect physical exercise.
Treating their time off like a holiday club and breaking up their activities into shorter focused segments might be sensible.

I feel sorry for these children, they are left to their own devices, parents not around, Insufficient childcare, no structure to the day. Even the discipline sounds unstructured.
DS' school uses "ask, remind, consequence" as a discipline structure. Eg I will ask you to stop swinging in your chair, I will remind you to stop swinging on your chair, so it again and there is an immediate consequence which has been clearly communicated. The issue you have is there's little to take away from her. No we won't go to the park after lunch, or if you carry on with that we will go home.

Firstly think positive! The more you shout, the more they will feed of your negative energy and behave accordingly. Focus on the goid things and give them structure.
Get up have breakfast- let DC clear up the breakfast table ect.
Then it's child care- give them stuff to do ... puzzles, games TV...
When you get home from work have dinner and talk to them about their day - kids to tidy up. You can do some washing ect.
Then take them out to the park or a walk to the closest playground to wear them out. My DC used to love this. Sometimes we took a ball or we just walked through the undergrowth of the park. Other times they met friends on the playground....
Then home snacks and find a book to read to them or TV show to watch together - one episode at a time. (I highly recommend A series of unfortunate events!) Bedtime around 9pm.

Coming from someone who was at the local park at 8am with 2 DC & 2 dogs many times over during holidays- in the sunshine, freezing cold and rain

Firstly think positive! The more you shout, the more they will feed of your negative energy and behave accordingly. Focus on the goid things and give them structure.
Get up have breakfast- let DC clear up the breakfast table ect.
Then it's child care- give them stuff to do ... puzzles, games TV...
When you get home from work have dinner and talk to them about their day - kids to tidy up. You can do some washing ect.
Then take them out to the park or a walk to the closest playground to wear them out. My DC used to love this. Sometimes we took a ball or we just walked through the undergrowth of the park. Other times they met friends on the playground....
Then home snacks and find a book to read to them or TV show to watch together - one episode at a time. (I highly recommend A series of unfortunate events!) Bedtime around 9pm.

Coming from someone who was at the local park at 8am with 2 DC & 2 dogs many times over during holidays- in the sunshine, freezing cold and rain

You need to find other childcare if your family member is disabled and can't take them out. You can't keep four kids cooped up all summer.

They are bored, don't try to bribe them onto a screen but lean in to the energy they have. Natural consequences are your friend, she needs to be spending hours looking for the Lego, for a start. Any bits she doesn't find, she has to look through other sets to find similar bits - then next time she'll know what a PITA it is for her to throw pieces out the window.

They need to be out at the park/swimming/learning to roller skate/dog walk/scooting etc after breakfast - take the frenzy out of the day. Your current childcare isn't good enough, you need to find a better solution than this bare minimum, keeping an eye on them helplessly. Can you double up with someone so there's a capable adult leading them in activities? Maybe your relative can have the 3yo and you find something different for the 7&8yos.

They sound like they haven't had enough guidance, so default to chaos. Instead of handing chalk over, go out and show them some things to do with it -hopscotch, mazes, wings to lie against, things to draw.... Sometimes you need to plant the seed to get them going. Mine seemed to play endless egg hunts at this age, taking turns to hide and find them, for example, there will be things you can suggest.

Is there nothing locally, even for a couple of hours, like craft at the church hall? It would give you structure to work with. Ask on local groups for anything at all that is happening - if they are good at school and need stimulation you might find they can get really into a library challenge, flower pressing, painting stones or anything at all that is happening nearby.

Good luck - high energy kids engaged with the world can be amazing when they find their way.

its such overt naughtiness that it sounds like she desperately trying to get your attention. 4 kids with a big age range is tough: are you able to spend 1-1 time with her? Present it as a reward for good behaviour which will be removed if she misbehaves?

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Excuse the horror show of a link.

We all have one thing ...inc mummy and daddy

Dh is stop when DC say stop ( as he roughhouses amd cant hesr the difference bwtween squeals or delight and horror 😅) the consequence is he has to be horsey...

Mine is no shouting and they get 5 mins one on one time playing any game they like with me

I think this arrangement where they are being looked after by someone that isn't able to take them out is inevitably going to be difficult. I don't even find my own kids that badly behaved but I'm sure they'd be playing up under those circumstances.

Most kids need some structure and physical activity every day and I think you need more appropriate childcare, I'm sorry you're in a difficult situation but this sounds neglectful. I'd also look at a serious declutter or toy rotation if the mess is getting out of hand.

How does she respond when all these things happen? What emotions is she expressing?

I agree with others their childcare sounds... suboptimal. Im assuming its an older or younger person who is knackered and disengaged or just disengaged 😅

Set activities up the night before and or get better childcare.

Ugh stop it with your "feel sorry for the children" schtick. Their parents have to go to work FFS.

@Imissgoldengrahams you do need to find something for them to actually do during the day though. Can the relative really not leave the house with them at all? Where do they go to school, is that not an option for a holiday club?

If they really are stuck in the house all day you need to leave some sort of structure for them to work through while you're out.

Baking kits, art activities, scavenger hunts, photography challenges (assuming there's a camera or old phone they can use?), Lego challenges. Anything to keep their minds occupied and give them something to work towards.

I live a good parenting course. Been on a few to help refresh my skills and get some supports as my adhd kids were wee buggers back when they were wee.

Look up 'the incredible years' I did it as a course through a sure start (zoom) but you can buy book online, or local library or audiobook. Iv harped on about it in other posts but I honestly found it the most helpful course iv been on for dealing with kids