This is why we should bring back the death penalty

[bluewanda]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14918815/drug-addicted-cross-dresser-abused-lover-murder-son-hospital-ward.html

(One example of many.)

I think most of us feel very glad you are not in charge of the justice system if you see appeals as pointless...

Prison is more about protecting the public sometimes than extracting revenge by the act of taking someone off the streets and into a secure facility. There's a difference between justice and revenge which is why family of victims don't pick the sentence. Some people will not have the capability/ability to make choices that are safe for people around them and for those people, nothing will be an adequate deterrent. Including death. Which is why we lock them away. I agree certain crimes should mean life for the rest of the person's life though.

And out of curiosity, who are you expecting to kill these people? Are you volunteering your services? How do you think that would impact on your mental wellbeing and resilience watching these people die?

I'd argue that if you'd sleep soundly after then you're displaying sociopathic/psychopathic traits and we should watch you.

I'll do it.

https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/news/hidden-casualties-executions-harm-mental-health-of-prison-staff

And what do you think the impact of that would be on you - in real terms? On your family and your loved ones?

How do you think it would impact on the other people involved in that process?

The families of the offender? Their children who are completely innocent?

What about the people who you kill that you later learn were actually wrongfully convicted - you still cool with being the one to have taken their life?

You're totally fine with expecting someone else to do that job and risk higher levels of PTSD, suicidal ideation etc and both direct and vicarious trauma?

How do you think it would affect the prison officers who need to manage someone on death row with all the behaviour difficulties that generates? Or do you just expect them to suck it up and get on with it? Do they matter?

I wouldn't even have "death row". They'd be executed immediately after conviction, they wouldn't return to prison.

Yes but you've already established that you're also totally cool with killing innocent people as collateral damage since you see no merit in the appeals process. Which to my mind is ethically no better than being a murderer of any other innocent person. What about their families/children? Why do they matter less than the original victims and their family?

I'm not sure it's even worth trying to reason with you since you only seem interested in making deliberately inflammatory statements instead of a sensible discussion.

You still haven't actually made any mention of the traumatic impact this will have on the actual people you're expecting to do your dirty work either. Many former executioners are now long term disabled such as been the level of trauma they've experienced. Some have taken their own lives. That all OK with you as well? The impact on their family and loved ones not matter?

So you'd be absolutely fine about people like Peter Sullivan, Oliver Campbell, Stefan Kiszko, Angela Cannings and Sally Clark being executed despite being innocent? How does that make you any more human or moral than the murderers you condemn?

You again. All assertions, no argument. A year 7 child of moderate talent would be embarrassed to spout such shite.

So you now want to kill people for careless driving, failing to pay for their TV licences, and countless other minor offences? Where on earth do you think we are going to find the hundreds of executioners that that would require? Indeed, where do you imagine we are going to find juries willing to convict people of crimes if that is the consequence? Far from eliminating crime, you would actually make it far more difficult to secure criminal convictions and have many more unconvicted criminals going free.

I'm not sure it's even worth trying to reason with you since you only seem interested in making deliberately inflammatory statements instead of a sensible discussion.

This is the whole point of the type of "political" discussion that is now prevalent on Twitter and increasingly on sites like this.

Just hammer home the same simplistic talking points, assume bad faith in anyone who disagrees, never actually engage in a reasoned argument.

The ultimate aim is to deny the possibility that things might actually be complex and trade-offs exist. That way you can whip up anger at politicians who never adopt the incredibly easy solutions that obviously exist but which they don't adopt for some nefarious purpose.

As Trump is finding out with the Epstein case the only snags come when you actually get into power

I feel like once you get to that point juries are long gone and you have one person who acts as judge / executioner ala Dredd.

Sounds just like what Pontins was like in the 90s!

I don’t think we should bring it back but if it did come back it should be done quickly.

We never had death row in the UK.

In the 50s and 60s you got one appeal and one plea for clemency and it it failed then it was done within three weeks.

And how many of those executed were innocent?

They don't care.

They probably don't, but I think it's worth making the point anyway. It won't persuade them, but it might influence someone

No reason to assume people 'don't care' about miscarriages of justice, don't be so arrogant. Most people are just sickened and in despair at the seemingly endless cases of unbelievable violence and depravity against children and the lack of any meaningful justice for those crimes.

That’s the main reason I wouldn’t want to bring it back!

But the US system of keeping people
on death row awaiting execution somehow seems worse than the concept of the death penalty itself.

You're suggesting that people who want people hanged in court care about miscarriages of justice? Can you explain how?

It's considered a form of torture. I believe Florida can now use any method they like to kill people. The States is rapidly regressing.

I cannot read 35 pages. I saw this article online,a different paper, and that a 6 year old boy running amuck in a hospital ward, picked up and killed a baby.

That can't become an excuse to lose your own morality and bring in practices that could potentially be harmful to innocent people though. Granted I do think some posters on here are being maybe deliberately concrete in their posting to make a provocative point but that still contributes to a 'revenge' culture which isn't actually helpful to anyone and doesn't actually address any of the key issues that create/fail to identify harmful people in the first place. So it becomes a red herring that time/ energy/resources get wasted on and that detracts from the equivalent spent on actual solutions that have a chance of working. It takes the wheels off a genuine discussion and shuts things down.

Death penalties are expensive as they have to spend so much money on endless appeals - it would be cheaper to do life in prison apparently

We currently have a criminal justice system in which trials are listed 2, 3 or even 4 years ahead. The system now only allows one appeal and it can still take years, decades even.

Comparison to the timeframes of the 1960s is pointless.