To be this pissed off with my 4 year old

[alleoindup]

It was his sisters birthday party last weekend but her birthday is today. I work Mondays & Tuesdays so was going to open the presents today. Came downstairs and he’s opened every single one, destroying some in the process (like tearing colouring books and tearing the boxes some of the puzzles etc came in.)

I’m finding it hard to even look at him to be honest: I know I’m probably overreacting but I really am upset.

So I don’t get accused of drip feeding I am struggling anyway and this has just depressed the hell out of me.

Don't be daft.

She sounded surprised he was downstairs, because he doesn't usually go down by himself & she came down to find what he'd done

Anyone awake would be a bit daft to let a 4 year old go downstairs alone into a room with presents and leave them long enough to open a bunch of presents.

I can't be with my 1 year old all the time. He gets put in his playpen if I need to get stuff done. I did try to be with him all the time once and I knew if I carried on with that experiment I'd either end up completely mad or dead. (Not exaggerating, my mental health took a nosedive in that single day, it was actually scary.) I think I've arranged the living room so it's safe and I let him explore and play on the floor most of the time, but if I need to do anything more than go to the loo or get a drink he goes in baby prison.

Does she though? Even in her early (still angry posts) she’s more baffled/disappointed that he’d done such a thing because she expected better of him and in another post she makes it clear any ripping of gifts was completely accidental rather than malicious/on purpose. You are also seeing what you want to see, just like the other poster, but from a different perspective.

What a bloody ridiculous reach!

If you’d have been 55 and alone and had an asthma attack out of the blue, results would’ve been the same, potential death.

Your home should be a safe place for a child, so not able to reach kettles etc.

What age do you feel it’s safe for a child not to be permanently attached to you (whilst also parenting another younger sibling)?

She said "he knows they weren't his, he knows it's his sisters birthday and they were her presents"
She also said he should know better than to do it.

I wouldn’t let a 4 year old be first person downstairs in the morning by himself - I’d go down to check all was ok. I wouldn’t feel the need to “hover over” but at the very least for a couple of mins. It’s lazy not to.

At the very least you should have gone down today knowing there were presents out and to remind him they were to be left alone.

This one is mostly on you OP. But also 4 year olds should be aware not to do this if they know it’s their sibling birthday.

He's only four. Cut him some slack. Now, if he was 14 or 40 that would be different 😆. Kids and presents are like fire and petrol. You've got two healthy children , enjoy every minute. Tell him not to do it again, and accept dome responsibility for what has happened. Move on OP.

My DD is nearly 5 and just finished Reception and still has very little impulse control. It is exhausting, but she can only safely be left alone for a while with no pens, pencils, creams, anything sticky, anything breakable etc. I wouldn't trust her not to open a load of presents.

I don't think she is being naughty, she honestly can't control her actions most of the time, just developmentally isn't there.

It is very annoying but I know what she's like and have to work around that, or occasionally take the risk that I will come back to a bomb site.

I assume the OP's child isn't so predictable, however and that's why she is so annoyed! Just trust him as much as you would a two year old if that's how he acts, going forward.

So did he go down without any parental checks first? My kids would watch tv but I’m the one putting the telly on or and checking it’s kid safe first.

That's very naughty and he needs to feel appropriate consequences, such as confiscating some of his toys, as well as a ticking off. I'm aware that some people think four-year-olds have zero impulse control and shouldn't be held accountable for their behaviour, but IMO this is exactly why there are so many badly behaved little monsters roving around these days.

I dont understand these responses at all. Of course a 4 year old can be unsupervised. Mine can play for ages alone, I know where she is but not necessarily what exactly shes doing, shes never injured herself and if she did it would be more "falling over after jumping on the bed" and not this stuff about randomly homebaking/boiling kettles alone. I agree OP how do you ever make a meal or (heaven forbid) take time for yourself if your school aged children are joined at your hip like when they were babies?

I do agree that for something important like presents you should have reinforced the "dont touch" or something but obviously you've learned that the hard way now anyway..

Also OP i understand how angry you are - at 4 he knew they weren't his presents and he knew it was wrong and of course your emotional response is probably exacerbated by your maternal protective instinct towards his sister. You're also disappointed yourself that your plans for a lovely morning have been ruined.

Imo he certainly needs a stern telling off and the chance to make amends (helping you to rewrap, or maybe you take him out 1:1 to choose a special something for her, carefully wrap it and give it to her later on or when you can.

I think you need to take some space to calm down and move on and then start the day again.

And as PPs suggested when you get chance perhaps reflect on the relationships/dynamics between you and your children to explore whether this was a one-off regrettable lack of impulse control or a more deliberate attempt to sabotage his sisters birthday (from your reaction its suggests you think the latter in which case worth examining his jealousy and negative emotions towards his sibling and how to try to improve that going forward).

She cannot be alone with pens? I work in early years. Are you sure you aren't projecting your own fears? This is quite extreme. Does she understand "please do not touch these"?
You can't baby proof everything in your home so that a five year ild with no sen can never be alone.

You should be pissed off with yourself. HTH

A lot of it depends on the DC. I could trust DD to be very good, she had the odd pen scribble but that was it, at 4 she was very cautious and well behaved, still is at 16.

OTOH I couldn't trust DS to be alone for more than 5 minutes, not that he'd let me, he constantly called me if I in the other room, obsessive, adventurous, stubborn, demanding, bold, thankfully he has grown out of most of it aged 10. I won. 🏆

He would be punished at 4, if he opened his Dsis presents, he was often punished at 4 years old.

I’ve read OPs messages, most notably the one saying she was getting her daughter dressed and not asleep as you have made up.

and I’ve seen a few crazy posts from you.

edited for typo, wrote wasn’t instead of was

I don't think there's anything wrong with him being downstairs alone. How would you get anything done if you had to monitor a 4 year old at all times. People are being ridiculous. At a similar age I woke up, crept down and made a cake. I knew not to touch the oven but I did all the mixing. 4 year olds are capable of knowing right from wrong and not touching dangerous stuff.

I would be very pissed off too. He needs to help you clear up and help you re-wrap them all, then he can sit and watch his sister open them. I would also tell him that he is not allowed downstairs on his own for a while as it's too hard for him to make good choices when he's by himself.

Out of interest, what happens at Christmas when there are presents under your tree? Or do you not do that?

I think people are giving you a hard time. This is really awful behaviour for a near-five-year-old.

I would have gone nuclear at my similarly aged child if he had done this. But I really can’t imagine him doing it, and he’s hardly an outlier.

This thread is pure Mumsnet bonkers!

People do massively underestimate 4 Yr olds. They are not babies or even toddlers. They are school age children. Unless there are SEN, it is not unreasonable to expect them to understand what is and is not theirs and that they need to not touch, or treat with respect, the things that don't belong to them. They should be able to go into a cloakroom and get their own coat, for example, rather than just taking someone else's that they like the look of.

They should also be capable of doing some things unsupervised. For example, in school they will go to the toilet and wash their hands independently. They could go and stick their head in the toilet and flush but it is reasonable to expect that they won't do that.

Of course young children make mistakes sometimes. They are still learning. But they will not learn if they are not held responsible for their behaviour and have consequences when they choose to do something that they should not have done.

It is completely age appropriate for a 4 yr old to watch TV unsupervised. It is also completely appropriate to expect them not to deliberately open someone else's presents. He got it wrong this time. It is reasonable to be cross and upset about what he did and for him to have consequences for that. My preferred consequences would be natural consequences. He should understand what he did was wrong, that it has upset people, and he should be sorry for that and apologise. He should help rewrap presents. Perhaps replace damaged things with something of his own or come to the shops and choose a replacement for his sister while he gets nothing.

I definitely would not shrug it off as him being too little to understand. He will learn nothing from that.

Some of these answers do go some way to explain why some children in school think it's perfectly OK for them to trash stuff though. Unfortunately, it is then the other children having to go without that really suffer the consequences. Near me a bunch of teens vandalised a children's playground so thoroughly and frequently that it ended up being removed altogether. That's where lack of consequences leads.

Yep, my 7 yr old has ADHD and likely ASD and can be left alone in our living room so long as I understand he may stick gems to the wall, move the furniturenoones suggesting he's neglected, mine are 7and 4 but a few years ago were 4 and 1 and 4 can seem very grown up when it's the oldest child you've had. However your expectations aren't age appropriate. He's still only 4. The expectation of being alone in a room full of presents and not emas with them, especially for a younger sibling where he's still getting used to the idea that not all birthdays in the house are his, it's a big ask. Even my very placid and well behaved younger child would struggle with that.

@party4you

no, she shouldn’t.

@party4you

are you one of those people that has to blame the parent for every single bit of poor behaviour a child exhibits?

Op may laugh about it one day but her dd should not be expected to be easy breezy about it today.

If it was my other child’s birthday I’d most importantly be worried about missing their reaction if they woke up before me. On Christmas Day and birthdays I sleep downstairs next to the gifts so they can’t dodge me 😆

I would very clearly explain to your 4yr old this is not ok and you have hurt some of the presents. But I’d have had my older child wait upstairs whilst I quickly rewrapped them and rebagged them, (always keep paper and gift bags we reuse until they are falling apart in a spare cupboard).

Id have discreetly spoken to him and made a big deal of wow look at these amazing gifts to my other child. I suspect if you shouted at your 4yr old or got upset that is what upset the birthday child but hindsight or not being in the situation is easier to say should have done xyz. Ask him to apologise to sibling and then move on.