To be alarmed that he wants to move in.

[OldLobster]

Maybe I'm being too territorial / selfish but I'd like some second opinions...I'd like to add from the start that no children are involved in this muddle!

Met DP about 2 years ago. He had been separated for several years at that point but he and ex-wife put off selling the house while their daughter took A levels and then went to uni locally...during this time he slept in a little annex they had in the garden...no room for doubt there as I have met and spoken to ex-wife who seems nice (but very different personality to DP) she was aware of me from the start and I have observed said annex. Their daughter has now finished her course and started a job away from home and they have just put their house on the market.

From the start DP Used to come round to see me unannounced...staying over gradually became 3 then 4 then 5 nights a week although he would go home to shower, wash clothes etc. At one point he asked if we could spend more time together and I said I'd prefer to keep it at 3 or 4 nights a week...which he ignored. Yes, at this point I should have stood my ground but pathetically, I did not. My house is tiny and I work from home. We split cooking and food costs but I found it quite tiring because possibly due to upbringing and poor boundary management I always felt in hostess mode and behaved in the way I would if a friend or relative came to stay....I love my family but I'd be exhausted if they stayed for months...and miss my own space. I've tried to explain this to him...that this setup is very different from the dynamic or sharing a home together (as I've done with previous partners).

Predictably, and here we enter territory where cocklodger comments are likely and justified, the bills went up, heating, oven on all the time etc. I'd be a little more prudent when living alone. He didn't offer any help or any little token as I would when staying with a friend. Slightly tricky as he is seldom here during the day except at weekends. I've not given him a key. He doesn't live here but spends most of his free time here amd every night.

I felt embarrassed mentioning that the bills had gone up which i did after 3 months, he did actually push back a little when I did so but then started giving me the amount by which they had increased. I felt shoddy even asking.

I'd like a break from this arrangement ...so have suggested that before we look at him moving in properly or of getting somewhere together, we perhaps spend 3 months sharing an off season rental (there are lots of holiday cottages where we live and during the winter these are no more expensive than my mortage). Our incomes are similar but I have a fairly large mortgage that takes up half of mine and DP will, in addition, be getting bank interest on his house sale money. This little break would give me a chance to see what its like to live together rather than in my home where most of the costs and upkeep naturally fall to me. As mentioned, my house is tiny...there's barely room for my belongings
Dps bank interest alone would cover most of the rental and it would only be for a few months.

He likes the idea however has stated that he doesn't want to pay for it all and will only entertain it if i pay half..instead he'd like to stay at mine, paying 400 per month (my mortgage is 3 x this).

I'm not usually tight-fisted but in this case am I, for feeling that he should really be offering to take on this responsibility, just fora few months, as I have done so for 18 months?

@OldLobster, I’m getting the feeling from your posts that you may not actually act on the advice that’s been given, and just continue to let him encroach on your life and expand into your space until there’s barely anything left for you at all, even bloody oxygen.

He’s bamboozled you to the extent that you don’t even trust your own judgement and are second guessing your instinctive responses to him. Just look back at what you’ve written:

• you weren’t looking for a relationship, but somehow he’s created one and you seem to be in it whether you like it or not
• not only that, he’s got you contemplating moving to a properly serious, financially merged future with him when you sound totally ambivalent about him as a person
• he’s ignored and bulldozed every boundary you’ve tried to assert because it doesn’t suit him
• his ‘good deeds’ are all performative and public, done for admiration and applause (truly good people don’t just switch on their goodness when there’s an audience and switch it off behind closed doors)
• he’s tight as a gnat’s arsehole and will steal if he thinks he can get away with it, but somehow has you questioning whether you’re being tight-fisted
• he doesn’t like women, assumes they’re all gold diggers (the irony!) and sees them as principally existing to serve him. His bullish behaviour, misogynistic comments and relationship with his own daughter strongly suggest he views women as ‘less than’.
• he’ll happily see you sleep on the floor in your own house
• you’re afraid to suggest a more equitable living arrangement because you already know he’ll react badly and push back hard
• he’s nagged and bullied you into accommodating all his wishes - invading your space, subsidising his living expenses and even buying him a bed FFS!

And you’re honestly asking whether you’re the one being territorial and selfish? He’s not like this because you’ve ‘allowed’ him to be, he’s like this because he’s a parasite and a fucking awful person. You absolutely can backpedal, reclaim your own home and redefine the terms of your relationship - you’re an independent adult and no one else gets to dictate your living arrangements!

He knows exactly what he’s doing and has targeted you because he believes you won’t stand up to him. Please do. Tell him to GTF out of your life. I predict you’ll feel an unbelievable sense of relief when he’s gone and you can actually breathe again.

I wouldn’t even be entertaining any of this, but why not suggest that he gets his own place with his very own money and you can date properly without this shacking up so he doesn’t have to live in his wife’s garden shed business?

He gets a house for himself, then you can come visit him 3 days a week and he can host, cook, pay the bills. Then you have your lovely house to go back to where you don’t have to host because you see him at his plenty. His reaction to that suggestion will tell you all you need to know.

I dated one man who still lived with his ex (one upstairs and one down). He told me that he didn't like the arrangement and as soon as he met someone else he could live with, he'd leave. In other words, he just wanted subsidised accommodation. OP's situation sounds similar.

Ah, so this tells a much bigger story than all the rest of it. Volatile relationship with his dd, the one for whom he couldn’t leave the family home because the poor dear was in the middle of A-levels and would have been bereft. Parental alienation accusations at the wife who has put up with him living in her garden because he wouldn’t go anywhere else.

I think this tells you a lot about who he is and where his priorities lie and what the people closest to him who know him best think of him. Good at front stage performances (you bought into it initially too), but a dick behind closed doors (as you are now discovering).

the wife who has put up with him living in her garden

I think you’ll find she’s living in a house that’s half his while he’s relegated to the garden. He sounds like a liability but let’s get real here, it’s probably suited her not to sell the house.

That's it basically.
To be open, instead of skulking off ... the advice on here has meant a great deal to me..that people would bother to advise someone who should know far better...proves there are people who will give without taking.
No way am I going to enter into this £400 arrangement and yes it is insulting. I'm not wavering on that and this thread and strengthened my resolve.
I'm not quite there yet though and I am still pushing for us to spend a couple of months away from my home..I need the opportunity to get out of this hostess obligation to think clearly while maintaining my home as 'mine'. I've said to him that this is non negotiable. Not the ideal reaction to the kind and wise advice here but at least progress.
I tried to explain that the dynamic of having someone in my home isn't the same as sharing a home and about the hostess mentality but he took offence and said he thought I saw him as a partner not a guest.
If he fails to undertake sorting out somewhere for a couple of months and pushes more to live here from the off, that will be it, unfortunately. I will be incredibly sad but though my boundaries have been trampled on I have at least one left and I'm keeping it.

he thought I saw him as a partner not a guest.

Funny how he's a guest when it suits him, instead of actually being a partner and offering to contribute. Just get rid of him. It will do your self esteem the world of good.

@OldLobster I wonder if you are being gaslit.
Both I and my BFFs daughters told her to get rid of the leech boyfriend.
He countered by saying we were all jealous and in unhappy relationships. Not true.
These guys are arch manipulaters.
You deserve better.
We're only voices on a computer but there is a trend to financially abuse women. Lots on here have shared their stories. Women are starting to get the bigger jobs and have their own assets.
Men don't like it.
Look for kindness. They don't have to be rich but they should give you their last penny.

you realise he’s just saying whatever he thinks will trample your boundaries? ‘A partner not a guest’ is him making you feel like a horrible girlfriend who doesn’t appreciate him and doesn’t put into the relationship. Telling you you’re money oriented for asking for a fair contribution is him making you feel like you’re a slimy and greedy grabby person for asking. Analyse how his words make you feel and how he might hope you react to avoid feeling like the not loving enough or too greedy partner.

He is throwing all sorts of grenades with the "thought I was a partner, not a guest". He was happy to be treated as a guest when you were fussing over him and not asking for any money to support his presence Every Bloody Night.

I am angry on your behalf over the bed and your unwanted kingsize mattress. If it was so uncomfortable he could go sleep in his own bed! Here's an idea, he could even rent/buy his own place and have a HUGE bed.

I understand that you cannot go from "I am having some doubts" to "my eyes are fully open and this person I cared about is a cocklodger" overnight on a Mumsnet thread, but it is good that you are trying to reinforce your own boundaries.

When you find yourself wavering, or he tries to make you believe that you are selfish/tight/uncaring or that any other woman would happily let him skip into her home, reread this thread and remind yourself that you deserve someone who lifts you up. Not someone who tramples all over you to get free bed & board.

Good luck. xx

No one falls in love faster than a man who needs a place to live.

sack him off, he's a user

I really wouldn’t bother with the rental idea. He’s not going for it, and it wouldn’t help anyway.

I would just sack him off!

At the very least, take a complete break from the relationship until he’s settled in his own home.

Does he plan just to live with you or buy somewhere for him to live? Does he want you to live together then whats his plan ie that you rent your place and then rent somewhere together in which case he will be paying half the rent and bills...just say to.him your place is too small so whats his plan....why is he not buying his own place

He wanted us to buy somewhere together 50/50 and I've said I'm not ready to sell my home yet...I said it was due to feeling I wanted to keep it for at least another 18 months and because I if I sold sooner I'd have to pay an early repayment fee on my mortgage.

You’ve spoken about his meanness , over and above not paying his way. He’s been vile in many other ways, and clearly has form with his XW and DD. I mean this politely, but what is he bringing to your life, and why do you think you owe him a chance at living together when you enjoy your wee house so much?

I said already, but recommending again the Freedom Programme. It’s an eye opener regardless of what sort of relationship you’re in, or even if you’re in one at all.

He is a user this man, he won’t change even if he is panicked into making a short term effort.

50/50 will soon morph into "What's yours is mine and what's mines my own".
Look at the way he forced you out of your own bed, he takes over and exploits you on territory which you own solely. What's he going to do on territory which is already half his . . .
He is not a partnering person, he wants to dominate and conquer, and he will do it whilst claiming that you are the gold digger.

He is a user this man, he won’t change even if he is panicked into making a short term effort
Take heed of this.
The short-term effort is driven by the need to feel that he is back in control, that he has the upper hand, that you can't get out without hurting yourself more than you hurt him.
When he has won you over he will switch back into dominate and conquer mode, he's only happy when he holds all the cards, that is what feels right and normal to him.

Tell him you aren't ready to live with him yet and he needs to find his own place to rent before the marital home is sold.
Otherwise you are going to be stuck with him whether you want to or not.

Renting an airbnb together for 3 months isn't going to change anything either. He'll be on his best behaviour. As soon as you move back into your house with him it'll be back to him lounging around doing nothing while you are the hostess.

Don't try the three months, don't move in with him, you don't want to. So do not do this. Take your life back.

FFS don't sell your house, get him out, get him gone, take your life back.

he thought I saw him as a partner not a guest.

So he believes that a partner should sit back and make no attempt to help around the house, should make his 'partner' sleep on the floor and then buy a bigger bed (to which he didn't contribute) and wait on him hand and foot? Is that REALLY how he sees a partner?

Live separately, visit his house if you must, but I would honestly look at splitting completely. He's just wriggling....wriggling... his way under all your boundaries until he can do a full job of putting his feet up and letting you knock yourself out.

How much equity will you both have to put on this new house

I'm willing to bet, if you have more money towards the deposit he will act like a child at a request to ring fence your deposit. If he has more I can guarantee he will ring fence his and then make out like you should be forever grateful, pay more of the bills, do more of the housework to compensate because he put the larger deposit down

Ironically had I not felt taken advantage of over the last 18 months I wouldn't propose much more than £400...I'd probably suggest half of what it costs to rent a room in a shared house..so about 350 plus half of bills..so a couple of hundred more. I wouldn't charge a partner what I'd charge a lodger. I do feel it's of course right a partner in a similar situation should pay less..but not demand to pay so much less. That's what puts me off..he could offer to pay double his original suggestion and it would change nothing.

he took offence and said he thought I saw him as a partner not a guest.

I mean... this tells you everything about his (lack of) self-awareness and (excess of) selfishness. The fact that he took offence is 101 twat reaction to keep you in line and not listen to your genuine concerns. Then to claim this is a partnership while overtly poncing off you and wanting to do so more... There is no hope for this one, OP, sorry, Know you're 'not there yet' and want to do the trial 3rd place, but I'll bet he could just about get through that in order to get his way at the end, and then revert to poncing forever after. Let the wise advice here sink in and be ready to act on it at the next red flag. The crucial thing is, don't doubt yourself. He'll make you - with the offence taking - but you need to not roll over and give into your overly generous instincts or you're screwed. .

Op, he’s shown you who he is. Why should you be continually suggesting things to him that are fair. He should be doing everything to make you feel good, secure & reassured! Honestly, my tight, mean ex just wanted to somehow claw back what he ‘lost’ in his divorce settlement from another woman, and this guy is doing the same.
You’d be a mug to share your home or buy a home with this man - he’s a sponger!!
For context, my boyfriend of 4 years is moving in to my house this year. He’s offered to pay all outgoings except the mortgage (to keep me protected). He suggested this, I did not have to ask. If we get married he’s going to pay off my mortgage and eventually we’ll buy somewhere together but there is no pressure for me to do this. He actually wants me to be better off and have a better life. Your sponging grifter wants you to be worse off (you already are) and to compromise all of your hard made security so that HE is better off.
It’s awful.