To think the BMA have misjudged with another doctor's strike? Thread 2

[Locutus2000]

Rolling this over as people still seem to have something to say but no new poll.

Original post

AIBU to think the BMA have misjudged with another doctor's strike?

Last year they got more than anyone else in the NHS along with an improved deal. Nurses and other AHPs received lower rises.

BMA have just announced another 'resident' doctor strike continuing to chase pay restoration to 2008 levels.

Having just had the major win with changes to IMG prioritisation and the clamp-down on PAs it feels a bit tone-deaf and I can't see Streeting going for it.

PS I have never attacked UKMGs nor claimed to work for the NHS.

But I have enough related training to discern that doubting @Marchesman ’s credential’s is a bad idea.

Absolutely incorrect. As anyone with any parliamentary street knowledge knows.

Why on earth are you so rude all the time PFL? Your language is extraordinary.

Is that a threat? Of course I don't believe some random on here. Why would I?

You really are a fool. I have the emails and happy with that. MPs can choose to reply to anyone they want. Especially when it fits in with their plans for the future. I am glad it has unnerved you to the point of you having to deny it is possible.

Me rude? That is comedy gold. You are rudest poster of all the time. Your attacks on UKMGs have been despicable.

You have no idea of my status, qualifications, or background. I have replies from influential MPs. Not admin replies. Full in depth replies. One has referred the issue on to be looked at in more detail.

Several of your gang have said I am lying. I may or may not report those posts and send MNHQ proof that I am not lying.

MNHQ have been known to do checks in the past. I have seen it on other threads.

purple - please grow up - look through the threads yourself and you will find it, on top of all the sarcastic she is not a doctor, not WP nasty not caring etc

How anyone can take this as a threat is beyond me.

All we have done is to cite policy.

It does not matter what the policy is. MPs obviously ignore it when they want to. I emailed many MPs and got replies. Not admin replies. Full detailed replies. Maybe call the Houses of Parliament and ask someone as you are obviously struggling with the concept

A lot of people are very unhappy at IMGs flooding the specialty training market. MPs include and not from the same party either.

Who is not a doctor?

I went higher than ordinary MPs. Went to ones that would make a difference.

@PurpleFairyLights if they don't like what you say, you are lying. That's the only argument they have. That and the insults.

Weird how all the people disparaging new medical schools have not talked about why they exist in the locations they do. Let's take ARU. Overseen by Cambs. It was set up as Essex/Suffolk had a really low uptake of doctor jobs and any graduate from ARU can pre apply for foundation and be guaranteed a place locally. It's helped with recruitment in the area, especially the poorer parts. This is why Unis in these areas are being asked to set up new schools. To ensure doctors stay and work there (& it works).

@mumsneedwine you are absolutely right. They come across as wannabe intellectual snobs (without the intellect) with zero emotional intelligence. Their attacks on UKMGs in order to further the cause of IMGs is ridiculous and not going down well. Do they not realise anyone can read their posts?

Durham/Newcastle medical school did similar with great results.

I am enjoying their jibes that I am lying about the MPs. They wish there were no replies but there are. Will DM you the replies. You will enjoy.

But apparently we don’t need any help with recruitment because we have an oversupply of Drs and none of them can get any jobs anywhere. Which is it?

Edit: doubting @Marchesman ’s credentials

Both. There are a few areas where pre foundation recruitment is a thing. But otherwise IMGs can apply on the same footing as UKGs so not enough posts (hence the placeholder and made up jobs). For any other jobs it's a bigger mess. 30,000+ IMGs applying is not sustainable, and also not fair as those doctors have all paid for the exam and majority won't be employed. But over 50% of the 13,000 posts being filled from abroad, when we have 12,000 doctors trained in the UK is madness.

International students who train at UK medical schools are UKGs. So they lose their visa if can't get work, despite probably having been here for 7 years.

@poetryandwine and yet, they dispute anyone who doesn't agree with them ? I've never said anyone isn't who say they are - be pretty sad to pretend to be someone you're not on an anonymous forum. But the lack of empathy and understanding is v sad from a consultant in the NHS.

An excellent question. Successive governments seem not to have thought this through.

It is hard to argue against the idea of wanting the best doctors we can get. At the same time, it is valid to (a) consider the investment of the British taxpayer in the medical education of Home students and (b) to wonder why the UK, which generally provides excellent HE, is not providing more of its own top doctors?

To expand on the last point, why aren’t British doctors competing better against IMGs? Is it about education or seniority? More importantly, how does the difference play out clinically?

When @PurpleFairyLights said ‘she is not a doctor’ she may have been talking about me. Actually I am a mere STEM PhD. As such I may have too great a faith in intelligence, but my instinct as a patient is that I don’t mind a lack of seniority if it is coupled with a first class brain, good training and good supervision. I am also happy to be treated by a good IMG.

To return to the main point, I would appreciate a better understanding of the role the seniority of IMGs plays when British F2s lose out to them. If they are better educated, the UK needs to address that. If their seniority gives them better clinical skills which land them the jobs we have a conundrum here, for how are British doctors to learn?

I take your point, @Marchesman , that many graduates of most disciplines do not end up as practitioners. But our investment in medical training is somewhat greater overall, is it not? And one hopes that many doctors feel a strong sense of vocation. So I do think this needs untangling.

It would be pathetic to pretend to be someone you weren't on MN. Or to feign experience of an area you had none in. One would have to wonder what was troubling such people.

Equally, making things up on MN is seriously weak. It completely undermines threads. Again, one has to wonder why posters would do that.

Lack of manners is another unnecessary one but not so odd psychologically. I assume those posters are just plain offensive in real life.

😂😂😂 I knew that was coming. Right on cue.

Not seen you helping on the medicine threads @Sevillian. Why is that as you are soooooooo knowledgable ? Pop over, I'm sure everyone will welcome your opinions.

Insults from me ? Zero. I've never called anyone a twerp, a liar, ignorant, patronised or disparaged anyone. Others though 🤷‍♀️.

Those observations are perfectly serious mumsneedwine; no need for one emoji let alone four.

I don't think that you're the censor of this thread, however much you might (understandably) want to be.

I'm equally entitled to post if I wish. And I'll certainly post if I happen to see nonsense, fabricated or not.

Don't start again. Please. Stop.

I've already said earlier that I find the medical application threads grim. I explained why in that post. I have zero interest in contributing. Any decent applicant should be finding out how to apply themselves; no good applicant will fail.