To think the BMA have misjudged with another doctor's strike? Thread 2

[Locutus2000]

Rolling this over as people still seem to have something to say but no new poll.

Original post

AIBU to think the BMA have misjudged with another doctor's strike?

Last year they got more than anyone else in the NHS along with an improved deal. Nurses and other AHPs received lower rises.

BMA have just announced another 'resident' doctor strike continuing to chase pay restoration to 2008 levels.

Having just had the major win with changes to IMG prioritisation and the clamp-down on PAs it feels a bit tone-deaf and I can't see Streeting going for it.

I’m a great fan of relevance. Lots of posts are deleted all across these threads. Those have nothing to do with the particular post I referred to but if the author is struggling to remember the content and wants her memory refreshed, MNHQ is the way to go.

Could you stick to the subject of the thread please.

You keep going on about mumsneedwine having her post deleted so it is completely relevant.

@Sevillian Has MNHQ deleted any of your posts on another thread about unemployed resident doctors. Easy answer yes or no?

I already know the answer.

This thread is as irrelevant as the BMA - thanks to 3 (or so) posters…

Can I suggest a new thread if people want to continually air their personal grievances? Thanks.

A lot of what a reasonable sized number of posters write is extremely interesting but far too many recent posts are just unintelligible. The night shift indeed.

Unfortunately there is no point as various posters derail threads with posts about inadequate UK medical schools and low quality of UK medical graduates.

This is at least the second thread it has happened to, possibly the third.

Cross post.

Agree. Communicate by PM among yourselves if you must; on the thread, stick to the title, or near enough.

PFL the issue of quality is utterly central to the issue of training posts, however uncomfortable that may be for some graduates and their parents.

My bedtime now. Early start.

Your inability to answer direct questions shows more about you than you intend to disclose.

www.theguardian.com/society/2025/jul/02/nhs-in-england-told-to-slash-recruitment-of-overseas-trained-medics

Take your own advice otherwise you will look like a hypocrite.

Talks are ongoing with Wes and BMA, although from the PR yesterday it sounds like not much progress being made unfortunately. As nurses, consultants and GPs have now all rejected their pay offers it looks like more strikes will be coming this autumn.
Despite the fact it would be cheaper to make some movement on pay and conditions than to have 1 day of strikes.
Once the figures for training come out in October it's going to be hard for the government to explain why UK trained staff are unemployed whilst we have recruited over 50% of new doctors from abroad. In the current climate this just gives more ammo to Reform (which in my eyes is v v bad).

Thought this was a good history lesson as to how we got here

https://x.com/idrsunny/status/1734316178175086889?s=46

Today, in every hospital in the UK, doctors are the lowest paid staff.

Despite derailments or provocations from obvious quarters, occasionally an attempt at a gotcha raises something with a kernel of interest.

A few pages back there was a MNW-PFL back and forth regarding standards and the GMC, and as a strawman this was ignored. However, the GMC acknowledges that "differences between medical schools exist and that it is ‘inevitable’ that this variation can influence a graduate’s ‘interests, abilities and career progression" (Ellis BMJ Open 2022, GMC quote, my bold here and below). Ellis goes on to cite "significant variation in preparedness for practice, progression through Annual Reviews of Competency Progression in UK training programmes and fitness to practice sanctions according to the medical school of primary qualification," and "significant differences in the performance of graduates from different medical schools on high-stakes postgraduate examinations" specifically MRCP, MRCS, MRCOG, MRCP and FRCA.

The GMC lists 52 institutions that currently, or will shortly, award medical degrees. In many cases it will be impossible for patients to know where clinicians really qualified, graduates of the University of Cumbria will be awarded their degrees by Imperial College London, for example.

There is already significant heterogeneity in the quality of medical schools and medical graduates, and expansion is unavoidably at the lower end. This again from the GMC (workforce report):

"Due to increases in medical school places, the decrease in the proportion of the workforce who are UK graduates may slow or come to a stop. It could even start growing again. Regardless, each UK country will still need large numbers of non-UK graduates until 2036."

If Royal College filters are stable, UK medicine is a leaky bucket into which an increasingly leaky material is being poured.

What has this got to do with too many IMGs applying for Specialty Training?

Are you suggesting that IMG doctors are better and therefore the answer to the so called quality issues with UK medical graduates is to replace them with IMGs...

Surely the meanest of intelligence would realise that slagging off UK medical graduates in order to further the cause IMGs flooding the specialty training applications is inappropriate.

If the GMC say there is a problem with some medical schools they need to address it instead of running PLAB exams for IMGs to enter the NHS while leaving UK medical graduates unemployed.

After Bawa-Gaba I lost all confidence in the GMC I'm afraid.

This will be a huge problem if that is the case. I have had a lot responses from MPs from all political parties that were concerned enough about UKMG unemployment and the numbers of IMGs applying for Specialty Training.

No-one is 'slagging off' all UK medical graduates. It's just that almost all well informed stakeholders are articulating the very obvious fact that the expansion of medical schools is leading to sub par graduates who are unlikely to be able to pursue a meaningful medical career.

The thread title doesn't refer to IMGs at all, or the shortage or training posts.

You're quite sure? A lot? MPs who aren't your own constituency MP? I think you may need to check the rules.

So much nonsense on this thread.

Also for those posters who are claiming to have received multiple personal emails from Wes Streeting.

Just no.

Of course I am sure I received email responses. You really are very unpleasant. . Either you are calling me a liar or questioning my mental capacity. Both completely inappropriate.

I am happy to share the email responses from MPs with MNHQ so they can verify I have responses from top people.

I did not bother to write to my MP as they are not important enough. I wrote to the MPs that I thought were important and would be as disgusted as I am about the dropping of the RLMT and the result that 63% of specialty training appications are from IMGs.

Anyone making these claims about 'helpful replies from MPs' could/ should usefully copy and paste the content of the replies. No names required, no data breach, entirely legal to disseminate. MPs are acutely aware that their replies can be shared and aren't covered by any form of privilege.

Not posting will confirm my absolute conviction that no such emails have been received.

Who said this? Poster, date and time please?

Are you getting worried?

Why would I share anything with you? I find the majority of your posts and your opinions loathsome.

The direction is changing. Word has got out.

I can't express how not worried I am PFL. I'm as chilled as my wine (sipping while cooking and amusing myself with the nonsense on this thread, albeit only from certain posters. Very useful post from Marchesman this afternoon. Thank you Marchesman).

If you received such fantastic responses from MPs then lets see a bit of the old copy and paste. No such communication is covered by privilege. All utterly legal to copy and paste. I'm obviously not referring to an admin response from the office of the Sec of State. Those really don't count. I'm referring to responses from the MPs themselves personally although I'd quite understand that you might wish to omit your constituency MP (and it goes without saying, all identifying names).

The direction is changing. Word has got out 😂

Also, not for as long as Melissa Ryan is involved in negotiations, if her interviews are anything to go by. Seems to be a total fuck up.

No admin responses but long detailed replies.

I would not share anything with you as a matter of principle. I find your attitude in most things especially UKMG and your unpleasant posts aimed @mumsneedwine repulsive. You will not goad me into sharing them with you.