To think the BMA have misjudged with another doctor's strike? Thread 2

[Locutus2000]

Rolling this over as people still seem to have something to say but no new poll.

Original post

AIBU to think the BMA have misjudged with another doctor's strike?

Last year they got more than anyone else in the NHS along with an improved deal. Nurses and other AHPs received lower rises.

BMA have just announced another 'resident' doctor strike continuing to chase pay restoration to 2008 levels.

Having just had the major win with changes to IMG prioritisation and the clamp-down on PAs it feels a bit tone-deaf and I can't see Streeting going for it.

So the UK should accept the current situation? 63% IMGs applying for Specialty Training?

What makes you think IMGs are better than UKMGs?

Why is the UK an outlier where 195 other countries have a protectionist policy to their own medical graduates?

Taking into account projected figures in the GMC workforce report's model three - in which new UK graduates created by the planned new medical school places replace prospective non-UK graduate joiners - what do you understand to be the correct answer to your question?

What makes you think I think IMGs are better than UKMGs?

I have no in-depth experience of the healthcare systems of 195 other countries, do you?

I think we should reinstate Resident Labour Market Test immediately and give priority to UKMGs for jobs and specialty training. If there are any jobs left advertise worldwide just like 195 other countries do.

Australia is a good example. They have a form of Resident Labour Market Test. Doctors from abroad get the jobs that Australian medical graduates do not want to fill.

Australia is a good example? Because it is anticipated that 46% of Australian posts will need to be filled by non-Aus. graduates in ten years time?

Extraordinary news.

The point is they will fill the posts with IMGs after their own graduates get jobs.

Australia has protected its own medical graduates and its investment in those graduates.

Good system. The Resident Labour Market Test needs to come back immediately.

https://www.emergencyfocus.net/post/australia-running-out-of-doctor-jobs-a-reality-check-for-international-medical-graduates-imgs

Protectionist policies are only relevant if the countries in question have standards of entry to medical school which are as low as the UKs currently are, at the lower end.

As Marchesman says, 'The situation in medicine is that with the right strategic approach, almost anyone can qualify as a doctor in the UK now'.

You really don't like British medical graduates do you ? Please outline what steps you are taking to highlight these 'low standards' as it's obviously a patient safety issue to you.

Never thought I'd hear AAA as being low standards. No idea how you do anything with WP and ignore foundation/gateway courses where entry standards can be BBC.

Weird how every other country actively recruits ALL our doctors and people compete to come get to train.

Lots of US states just made it much easier to recruit British doctors. I'm assuming therefore US entry requirements must be sub standard too ??

https://thematchguy.com/state-img-license-practice-without-residency-international-doctors/

I was referring primarily to Australia mumsneedwine, since that's the example PurpleFairyLights cited.

I don't think I need to do anything whatsoever; market forces re. training posts is doing a good job without further intervention.

In almost all posts referring to A level standards I've specifically excluded contextualised grades, so any comment about that category of student is irrelevant. I'm directing my comments towards AAA from the economically privileged applicants who have attended leafy comps/ grammars/ independents. It's not in any way a high bar.

Very peculiar to infer that I don't like British medical school graduates. What I don't like are low standards.

Who'd want to work in the states in the current climate?!

A 2:1 in a Biosciences or Allied Healthcare degree, an average UCAT score, and the wherewithal to cover four year's fees, will furnish you with a medical degree by the graduate-entry route.

80% of university entrants with CCC at A-level are awarded 2:1s and above (30% are awarded firsts), and 80% of A-level entrants achieve CCC or better.

There are numerous commercial entities - whose employees would presumably describe themselves as widening participation - that for a fee will coach students to raise their UCAT scores to the required standard. One of them promotes itself as having been used by nearly a quarter of a million students, raising their scores on average by 15%.

The implication that UK medical school entrants need to have achieved a high academic standard is plainly not correct; persistence and modest financial support suffice.

But then of course, as @Sevillian has pointed out to you, the standard-setting takes place a few years post-qualification - a cynic might observe that from several perspectives, not least commercial, external pressures to succeed have reversed at this point.

Your final sentence is incomprehensible. No more than 15% of juniors are recruited by other countries post-F2 and foreign graduates come here for a variety of perfectly understandable reasons not least the quality of the professional exposure.

@ramonaquimby well there is that 😂

55% of GP recruits this year are IMGs. And expected up to 40% in other specialities. No idea where that 15% is from ?

Here. It's much worse this year.

The last UKFP F2 career destinations report.

If you were able to get past your "IMG" fixation, you might understand what people are telling you.

Do you mean specialty training applications flooded by applications from IMGs? 63% this year. There is no fixation on IMGs the amount of IMGs applying to specialty training is a huge concern.

Please tell me any other country that would allow this at the detriment of its own medical graduates?

A presenter on LBC has highlighted the ridiculous situation the UK government has allowed with 63% of IMGs applying to specialty training.

So which countries have the best medical education and produce the best doctors in your opinion?

@Marchesman if you got over your IMG fixation you'd see the truth. The figures posted are fact. Did of miss them ?

Again, NHS figures. Or are they wrong too ?

This year will be far worse as 33,000 IMGs applied for UK specialty training posts. IMGs that have been doctors for many years competing with F2s that have been doctors for 17 months. What is fair about that?

@Marchesman‘s post at 17.28 (final paragraph) is saying that 15% or fewer of UK F2s are leaving for overseas destinations as they complete Foundation training. Nothing about who is coming here.

15% of UKG going abroad is not reflecting the amount of unemployed UK medical graduates in the UK.

I wonder why the figures for IMGs coming here have not been released yet...