Page 31 | To think the BMA have misjudged with another doctor's strike? Thread 2

Locutus2000 · 2025-07-22T10:23:08+00:00

Rolling this over as people still seem to have something to say but no new poll. [[https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5369651-to-think-the-bma-have-misjudged-with-another-doctors-strike Original post]] ^AIBU to think the BMA have misjudged with another doctor's strike?^ ^Last year they got more than anyone else in the NHS along with an improved deal. Nurses and other AHPs received lower rises.^ ^BMA have just announced another 'resident' doctor strike continuing to chase pay restoration to 2008 levels.^ ^Having just had the major win with changes to IMG prioritisation and the clamp-down on PAs it feels a bit tone-deaf and I can't see Streeting going for it.^

PurpleFairyLights · 22/08/2025 19:29

Sevillian · 22/08/2025 19:25

PurpleFairyLights a post which contained what has been confirmed by MNHQ to be a tissue of fabrication is of the utmost concern. It certainly suggests that that wasn't the only fabrication that we've been treated to. Quelle surprise.

Could you two kindly now stop the slightly crazed fest that you're on and allow people to return to the proper subject of this thread. Your posts aren't even worthy of Y9 girls at their absolute worst.

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Sticks and Stones. I merely reply to you.

Not sure what is crazy about a double firstc in Italian or referring to a post that MN deleted.

Sevillian · 22/08/2025 20:01

PurpleFairyLights · 22/08/2025 19:26

You know exactly what I refer to.

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Literally no idea. But if you could point me in the right direction that would be good.

mumsneedwine · 22/08/2025 20:21

Oh dear. Move on, get a life, go meet some friends and have a beer, just please stop going on and on and on and on ..... Try not mentioning me for one day. It's not healthy.

Sevillian · 22/08/2025 20:39

mumsneedwine I've asked you to revert to the subject matter of the thread and you seem unable to do that.

You tried to slur another poster and were called out for fabricating. I get that that's difficult for you but it's entirely of your own making and was a bridge too far.

You move on. Everyone else is happy to. But no more made up stuff please, because you really did overstep by quite some way this afternoon.

I'm very glad MNHQ intervened.

poetryandwine · 22/08/2025 20:47

PurpleFairyLights · 22/08/2025 18:50

Surely that is creepy even mentioning that you could find out who someone is?

Nightshift a go go

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I think so. I’ve been stalked on MN and was creeped out. I wouldn’t wish that on anyone. I don’t think the PP being goaded would stalk but you never know about others.

When mums made this comment, the context was a discussion of DC who had 4 A stars. Not at all impossible to find her from what she’s said plus the now corrected implication she had a DC with 5.

mumsneedwine · 22/08/2025 21:37

@poetryandwine the stalking is horrible isn't it ? Just feels an invasion. Hoping it's never going to start up again as was rebuffed by all the people contacted. But was a weird few weeks and there was also an attempt to find my DD which made me really angry.
I've met several posters (not on here) in real life and everyone has been lovely. But no DS in my family and no more than 3 A levels for my cherubs. Their comp couldn't afford it !

Sevillian · 22/08/2025 22:31

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

mumsneedwine · 23/08/2025 07:41

Stop. You've been asked so many times. Leave the insults and lies out. I have never mentioned you or accused you of anything, and it's quite frankly v odd behaviour to imply I have. Stop talking about me !

Sevillian · 23/08/2025 08:46

Your post yesterday was deleted precisely because of the accusation which MNHQ was able to confirm as a complete fabrication. Obviously that’s serious, given that the allegation (albeit false) was serious.

Could you please now return to the subject matter of the thread as you’ve already been asked by others to do.

mumsneedwine · 23/08/2025 08:51

Stop, for the seventh time. Your lies and obsession with me is worrying both me and many others now. I've reported you, something I don't do, because you are spouting such rubbish and lies about me, again. 12 times you mentioned me yesterday. I mentioned you not once. All I ask is you stop.

Sevillian · 23/08/2025 09:07

mumsneedwine when a poster makes an allegation of the sort you made yesterday the person it appears to be aimed at is bound to take action. That’s all I did.

That should be the end of the matter. Unfortunately I’m now having to reply to your posts.

MNHQ

PipMumsnet · 23/08/2025 09:15

Hello - we are just popping in to remind you that Mumsnet is here to make parents' lives easier. While we encourage healthy and robust discussion, we hope that everyone can respect each other and express views without resorting to personal attacks.
Perhaps we can get this thread back on track now.
Peace and love.
MNHQ

mumsneedwine · 23/08/2025 09:45

Thank you. Much appreciated.

Now let's start afresh.

Sevillian · 23/08/2025 09:48

I seem to have had a post deleted in which I said that my own privacy had been compromised too, and that I agreed with poetryandwine that it was seriously unpleasant and particularly unpleasant especially when it involved DC.

I assume the post was deleted because it did also emphasise the need to not fabricate on MN, although I'm not clear that that's contentious. Presumably my wording was too strong.

Sevillian · 23/08/2025 09:48

Cross posted with yoursmumsneedwine.

Indeed.

mids2019 · 23/08/2025 10:13

I think one thing we have to consider with health care as a whole is our attitude to recruiting from overseas and whether we need to be more protectionist (if this is a good thing).

An example from healthcare science is that if we apply in an unbiased fashion the points based interview scoring as dictated by national policy we wouldn't employ any one from the UK

The reason? We have Indian candidates with years of experience often near head of department applying for entry level jobs in the UK. In terms of experience and ability to immediately do jobs they beat raw graduates from the UK hands down even though the UK graduates are very good.

We continuously go out to local schools and universities saying there is a shortage of candidates for health care science when patently there aren't. India is a country of 1 billion people and produces huge drives of qualified people who wish to move to the UK I feel sometimes we are unfairly leading UK candidates up the garden path in terms of encouraging applications.

A lot of trusts do see this problem and as it is illegal bot to offer HCS posts to foreign nationals come up with spurious and incorrect means of limiting foreign recruitment. Excuses range from 'visas are complicated' (they aren't), 'accomodation takes time to organise (it doesn't really) to we don't want to TEAMs interview (when we do for UK candidates).

Basically it is an awful situation where trusts are having to dig up excuses (verging on racism) to ensure UK candidates have a chance and I feel we do need policy review from government.

Is this the situation in medicine?

poetryandwine · 23/08/2025 10:24

Sevillian · 23/08/2025 09:48

I seem to have had a post deleted in which I said that my own privacy had been compromised too, and that I agreed with poetryandwine that it was seriously unpleasant and particularly unpleasant especially when it involved DC.

I assume the post was deleted because it did also emphasise the need to not fabricate on MN, although I'm not clear that that's contentious. Presumably my wording was too strong.

Yes, @Sevillian I don’t remember anything objectionable in that post.

To an earlier point, you mentioned problems with marking at Oxford? How was that resolved?

I’ve always understood that in the UK academic judgment cannot be questioned. But I’ve also understood that it’s never down to one person. Eg in my School only a minority of exams will have marking checked by internal and external referees. Both can raise issues with the marking rubric. The academic judgment is a collective one.

Sevillian · 23/08/2025 10:58

poetryandwine the single marking stood. I think single marking is especially difficult for humanities subjects, not sure. Graduate plans took a hit on the back of it, unfortunately.

PurpleFairyLights · 23/08/2025 11:18

mids2019 · 23/08/2025 10:13

I think one thing we have to consider with health care as a whole is our attitude to recruiting from overseas and whether we need to be more protectionist (if this is a good thing).

An example from healthcare science is that if we apply in an unbiased fashion the points based interview scoring as dictated by national policy we wouldn't employ any one from the UK

The reason? We have Indian candidates with years of experience often near head of department applying for entry level jobs in the UK. In terms of experience and ability to immediately do jobs they beat raw graduates from the UK hands down even though the UK graduates are very good.

We continuously go out to local schools and universities saying there is a shortage of candidates for health care science when patently there aren't. India is a country of 1 billion people and produces huge drives of qualified people who wish to move to the UK I feel sometimes we are unfairly leading UK candidates up the garden path in terms of encouraging applications.

A lot of trusts do see this problem and as it is illegal bot to offer HCS posts to foreign nationals come up with spurious and incorrect means of limiting foreign recruitment. Excuses range from 'visas are complicated' (they aren't), 'accomodation takes time to organise (it doesn't really) to we don't want to TEAMs interview (when we do for UK candidates).

Basically it is an awful situation where trusts are having to dig up excuses (verging on racism) to ensure UK candidates have a chance and I feel we do need policy review from government.

Is this the situation in medicine?

The Resident Labour Market Test needs to be reintroduced immediately before the next Oriel application cycle.

It is not fair that UK graduates mostly aged around 25 are competing with IMGs with far more experience in a points based system.

UK needs to prioritise its own graduates like 195 countries do.

I emailed a lot of MPs a while back and have had very encouraging replies from a variety of parties.

This issue was covered by LBC. So many people are not aware. In 2025 63% of applications for specialty training were from IMGs. This country has let down our own medical graduates.

PurpleFairyLights · 23/08/2025 11:21

mumsneedwine · 23/08/2025 08:51

Stop, for the seventh time. Your lies and obsession with me is worrying both me and many others now. I've reported you, something I don't do, because you are spouting such rubbish and lies about me, again. 12 times you mentioned me yesterday. I mentioned you not once. All I ask is you stop.

@mumsneedwine I hope you are ok and that MNHQ advice will be followed as I have read all the posts and concerned about you.

poetryandwine · 23/08/2025 12:05

Sevillian · 23/08/2025 10:58

poetryandwine the single marking stood. I think single marking is especially difficult for humanities subjects, not sure. Graduate plans took a hit on the back of it, unfortunately.

Wow. I suppose an outsider can never know what happened. However the inability to seek review is my nightmare concerning (my understanding of) the British system - I am not British.

I hope the students landed on their feet

mumsneedwine · 23/08/2025 12:09

@PurpleFairyLights I'm all good, thank you. Have no idea why this person thought I'd accused them of anything but nought so weird as folk 🤷‍♀️. Are they still going - I've muted them 🥰

Sevillian · 23/08/2025 12:16

poetryandwine unfortunately not.

Sevillian · 23/08/2025 12:19

All anyone can say for sure is that a serious allegation was made about an individual (unnamed) poster and MNHQ found it to be untrue.

If you wish to discuss other posters, could you do it by PM and leave the rest of us to the thread please, as per MNHQ counsel?

Marchesman · 23/08/2025 17:18

mids2019 · 23/08/2025 10:13

I think one thing we have to consider with health care as a whole is our attitude to recruiting from overseas and whether we need to be more protectionist (if this is a good thing).

An example from healthcare science is that if we apply in an unbiased fashion the points based interview scoring as dictated by national policy we wouldn't employ any one from the UK

The reason? We have Indian candidates with years of experience often near head of department applying for entry level jobs in the UK. In terms of experience and ability to immediately do jobs they beat raw graduates from the UK hands down even though the UK graduates are very good.

We continuously go out to local schools and universities saying there is a shortage of candidates for health care science when patently there aren't. India is a country of 1 billion people and produces huge drives of qualified people who wish to move to the UK I feel sometimes we are unfairly leading UK candidates up the garden path in terms of encouraging applications.

A lot of trusts do see this problem and as it is illegal bot to offer HCS posts to foreign nationals come up with spurious and incorrect means of limiting foreign recruitment. Excuses range from 'visas are complicated' (they aren't), 'accomodation takes time to organise (it doesn't really) to we don't want to TEAMs interview (when we do for UK candidates).

Basically it is an awful situation where trusts are having to dig up excuses (verging on racism) to ensure UK candidates have a chance and I feel we do need policy review from government.

Is this the situation in medicine?

The short answer is that we should not be more protectionist, contrary to the most strident voices on this and other threads like it. See, especially chapter five of:
https://www.gmc-uk.org/-/media/documents/somep-workforce-report-2024-full-report_pdf-109169408.pdf

The situation in medicine is that with the right strategic approach, almost anyone can qualify as a doctor in the UK now - there are more DEI specialists in new graduate-entry medical schools than scientists. A job is then guaranteed for two years, but after this career progression starts to become competitive.

Especially for candidates from new universities, PBL universities, or with prior low academic attainment, the Royal Colleges' exams halt further progress. If these exams are passed, there is tough competition for a relatively small number of hospital posts. Most entrants to medicine never really have a chance - they are deceived.