To think the BMA have misjudged with another doctor's strike? Thread 2

[Locutus2000]

Rolling this over as people still seem to have something to say but no new poll.

Original post

AIBU to think the BMA have misjudged with another doctor's strike?

Last year they got more than anyone else in the NHS along with an improved deal. Nurses and other AHPs received lower rises.

BMA have just announced another 'resident' doctor strike continuing to chase pay restoration to 2008 levels.

Having just had the major win with changes to IMG prioritisation and the clamp-down on PAs it feels a bit tone-deaf and I can't see Streeting going for it.

@mumsneedwine it is quite worrying that there are these outlandish assertions.

What I don't like is the ladder pulling or rope cutting.

So why didn't you speak up ? Plenty of opportunity to do so.

I am not assuming anything hence how my post was worded.

Plenty of people on these threads said what posters are saying is rubbish, not true, load of BS etc.

Mums admitted her comment and as far as I am concerned the issue is closed. Disrespect of peoples lived experience is fairly offensive how ever you want to call it.

@PurpleFairyLights have noticed a little ladder lowering lately. Some RColleges backtracking on PAs, and jobs starting to require 2+ years of NHS experience. It's a start.

Keyboard warrior. Pathetic.

Extraordinary mumsneedwine. Especially since you appeared not to know about the conference until I pretty much spelled it out.

@stuffedpeppers but that's different. We have disagreed with what has been written, not disparaged doctors. Some of what has been posted is BS (no unemployed F2s, no problem
with the increase in IMGs, that some Unis are rubbish). But everyone is allowed an opinion. And everyone can disagree, preferably without name calling or abuse.

😂😂😂😂😂😂 yes, you told me about it. Of course you did. So again, why didn't you speak up ?

What is weird you were either there or were not there.

Do stop your nonsense mumsneedwine. If you were truly a professional a) your school would endorse you, or your academy trust and b) you would know that matters are dealt with in appropriate forums. People don’t show up and start attention grabbing by shouting from the floor, interrupting an entirely different flow of conversation about separate topics.

Assume you're going to the one next month? I've just proposed a debate on the new Unis and their worth to the organiser. I expect you to be loud and clear with your views.

Exactly.

I was.

That’s why I was aware of the event taking place.

But mainly, stop your very weird personal vendetta. It’s beyond dull.

@Sevillian so why didn't you speak up ? Name calling and insults aren't an answer (unless you are Trump).

There was a v lengthy Q&A where it could have been raised. And we were discussing it at dinner. Were you not with us all ?

mumsneedwine please stop with the fantasy nonsense it’s a massive detail.

That is just awful behaviour.

On here going on about the Oxbridge medical schools. Making out bright children that did not want to go there are deficient in some way and secretly wanted to go.

Slagging off medical schools but not voicing concerns.

mumsneedwine honestly this is going beyond weird to quite seriously sad. Don’t dig yourself in deeper. The thread isn’t all about you (that said, why won’t any educational institution endorse you? Unheard of tbh).

Read the post about a time and place and stop asking me to repeat myself.

I said every other poster claims their DC only didn’t go to Oxbridge because they didn’t want to apply. It’s just a bit of an arrogant assumption that they’d have got in.

A moment ago I wasn’t a delegate and so….

I'm asking you to answer 1 question. You can't repeat yourself when you refuse to answer it. But you'll have ample opportunity at the next one, I promise. There's now an agenda point to discuss new Medical Schools. Just for you.

But the point about not applying for Oxbridge is because you don't want to go. Because you don't like old fashioned courses. It's v v simple.

I’m assuming this is me you are referring to
It’s such an offensive misrepresentation of what I have said.

Re ladder pulling/ ‘rope cutting’
What a bizarre assertion! What the hell would be my motivation for that?? How would it benefit me to do that? I want there to be Drs being trained to replace me when I retire. I was a clinical and educational supervisor for many years to many junior Drs and always had good feedback. Why would I bother with that if want to cut the rope? Totally bizarre accusation.

-An FY1 on their 1st day in the job is not as much practical use as a PA with a number of years experience. This is just factually correct. I stand by what I said. I was an FY1 once upon a time and on my 1st day I was also pretty useless. You live and learn and you get more useful. It is arrogant to think you are Gods gift to medicine on day 1 and to denigrate the skills of others who you need to work in a team alongside. If you ever were a junior Dr on your first day you would know it’s a baptism of fire and a very steep learning curve which medical school does not in any way prepare you for. It is humbling.

I massively disagree with these shitty strikes over pay. I do not belief in ‘pay restoration’. I do not believe that Drs should strike but very obviously I would never tell any of the juniors my opinion nor let it affect any sign offs. I made a silly flippant comment that I pretty instantly apologised for threads and threads ago so I think it’s bad faith to present it as though it’s something I would seriously do. I no longer have any trainees in my current service so you need not worry at all that any are suffering for my alleged bad attitude. In fact a lot of my former junior Drs keep in touch and I am proud to be helping some of my first ever trainees with consultant applications now. I remember each and every one of my trainees and I am fond of them even the ones that had a hard time. In the same way that I had huge admiration and respect for those (now all long retired) who trained me. When you work in a tough environment together bonds are formed. Thats what happens. Very far from cutting ropes and pulling up ladders I am giving them a helping hand and a leg up!

Massive unemployment. I will reserve judgement until I see official figures not anecdote or biased surveys. The official GMC report that MarchesMan linked upthread showing that 50% of FY2s did not apply for a training scheme was a huge eye opener to me. If you don’t apply don’t complain that you don’t have a job. FY3 is not an official thing. It’s used to be called a Trust grade job. It is not a stage of training and there should never have been any assumption that those jobs would exist for all as they are not official training posts. If Drs are choosing to hang around expecting to get such short term and locum jobs then that is the likely explanation for bottlenecks in the system. It has happened before many many times.

I agree with stuffed peppers that it is really strange and insulting to have our lived experience of decades in the NHS dismissed on these threads. Junior dr unemployment and bottlenecks in training are not new. We’ve told you about Calman and MMC which you did not appear to know about whereas we lived through it. Going to NZ and Aus for a while has always been a rite of passage a lot of us have done it for a few years, had a great time and a lot of experience and come back. We’ve done our time of rotations, crappy shifts and studying and taking exams whilst working like a dog. Add to that a healthy dose of teaching by humiliation, getting thrown in situations your competence and misogyny which you would not have these days. We can sympathise because we have genuinely been there, done that and got the T shirt. We aren’t just listening to someone else’s hearsay it’s been our day to day reality all our working lives so it is really strange to have people’s mums tell us what working as a junior Dr is apparently like as though we wouldn’t know.

No one is saying it isn’t hard just that it might not be as uniquely hard as you think. The question was has the BMA misjudged the strike and I still say that yes they definitely have. The public is not with resident Drs on this one. I fervently hope that some face saving compromise can be reached before any more damage is done to patients and our NHS who in the final analysis are the ones I do the job for.

People keep bringing up the GMC. The GMC has detected no problems with new medical schools - using the metrics of self reported preparedness and ARCP.

But fifteen years' of peer-reviewed research has shown that for graduates of new medical schools, the criterion of being clinically competent is not being met.

It is possible now to become a doctor in this country with a biomedical science degree (entry requirement CCC) followed by four years of purely clinical teaching.

What do you expect to happen?

@ThePure

Very well said. Thank you.