Page 21 | To think the BMA have misjudged with another doctor's strike? Thread 2

Locutus2000 · 2025-07-22T10:23:08+00:00

Rolling this over as people still seem to have something to say but no new poll. [[https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5369651-to-think-the-bma-have-misjudged-with-another-doctors-strike Original post]] ^AIBU to think the BMA have misjudged with another doctor's strike?^ ^Last year they got more than anyone else in the NHS along with an improved deal. Nurses and other AHPs received lower rises.^ ^BMA have just announced another 'resident' doctor strike continuing to chase pay restoration to 2008 levels.^ ^Having just had the major win with changes to IMG prioritisation and the clamp-down on PAs it feels a bit tone-deaf and I can't see Streeting going for it.^

PurpleFairyLights · 18/08/2025 18:09

Sevillian · 18/08/2025 17:20

On your first point, I mentioned the mothers who are angry on behalf of their DC and posting in an angry way. You referred to them previously as strong mothers (or maybe strong women supporting their DC - same difference).

On your second point, it’s a bit of a reach. Is your DS complaining of an Oxbridge bias in terms of workplace relations? I haven’t come across that, purely a bias in terms of selection for training (based on merit, but tracking back that leads to a higher representation from certain unis. Nothing to do with workplace relations though).

As I said in my previous post my DC has never encountered your form of bias that he is aware of and has done well whereverhe works.

I suspect he would find your attitude quite old fashioned. Whereas I think it is deeply unpleasant.

Sevillian · 18/08/2025 18:57

PurpleFairyLights if you think wanting training posts to go to doctors who aren’t going to mess up/ cause harm through negligence or lack of ability then so be it.

I happen to find inverted educational snobbery unpleasant. It’s mean minded and chippy. It’s noticeable on the application threads that those who post about a DC getting an offer from Oxford or Cambridge only get a muted (grudging?) well done compared to the whoops when a DC gets an offer from one of the medical schools at the opposite end of the rankings.

The way things play out later on in these young peoples’ careers is a to be expected, given their relative prior attainment. Far too many young people are going to and graduating from medical schools.

Sevillian · 18/08/2025 19:04

*If you think wanting training posts…. is unpleasant then so be it.

Sevillian · 18/08/2025 19:05

Sorry about typos - walking dogs/ the spaniel is pulling like mad (grouse about). Makes accurate typing a challenge.

mumsneedwine · 18/08/2025 20:35

I celebrate all my students, wherever they end up. Plumber or Oxford (the plumber likely to end up richer). Like most people, I really don't care as long as they are happy.
Love the idea of angry mums. As a mum, I'm v happy as my DD loving life as an ST1. Has always got her first choice Deaneries and jobs. From her comp she also got 4 offers - never applied to Oxbridge as didn't like the course style. Got 4 A stars so 🤷‍♀️.
But I'm not here just as a mum. Because I can easily see how others are affected and want to fight for all. Not just a select few.
If people, especially doctors or anyone involved in recruiting medical students, feels some medical schools are not up to standard, why are you not complaining to the GMC ? It's not the students fault.

PurpleFairyLights · 18/08/2025 20:48

mumsneedwine · 18/08/2025 20:35

I celebrate all my students, wherever they end up. Plumber or Oxford (the plumber likely to end up richer). Like most people, I really don't care as long as they are happy.
Love the idea of angry mums. As a mum, I'm v happy as my DD loving life as an ST1. Has always got her first choice Deaneries and jobs. From her comp she also got 4 offers - never applied to Oxbridge as didn't like the course style. Got 4 A stars so 🤷‍♀️.
But I'm not here just as a mum. Because I can easily see how others are affected and want to fight for all. Not just a select few.
If people, especially doctors or anyone involved in recruiting medical students, feels some medical schools are not up to standard, why are you not complaining to the GMC ? It's not the students fault.

@mumsneedwine Of course they should be complaining to GMC. What happened with the conference you went to?

My DC was not interested in Oxford or Cambridge so did not apply. Also, they used to do pre-clinical in Oxford and then do clinical years in London I think. @sevillian my child decided where they wanted to go to medical school for many reasons and had a very happy and fruitful 5 years.

mumsneedwine · 18/08/2025 20:51

@PurpleFairyLights there were no doctors at the conference who believed that any Medical School was not up to standard. They found the idea quite insulting (especially as one v eminent prof had helped set 2 of them up).

stuffedpeppers · 18/08/2025 20:53

I think what many of us actual doctors struggle with on some of these threads is the rudeness to those who have been junior doctors, worked 80- 100+ hours per week every week, studied for exams, wrote papers, did higher degrees, faced unemployment on a 6 monthly basis, watched a new way of training post grad doctors be implemented and those already on the treadmill got dumped for run through training, had debt, competed with IMGs for jobs, left the country as no jobs, come back, gone sideways then gone up. But apparently we had it easy!

Apparently we do not understand, are arrogant ignorant and unsupportive of current residents. They have different challenges and not some of the challenges of the past - things have improved and different challenges have come up.
To denigrate those who went before and pushed for reductions in hours, better training and supervision etc etc, to me shows a lack of understanding on what it takes to get to the end either as a GP or consultant or researcher etc

i would not wish much of my training in the format it was on the current generation, it was brutal, but there are parts of my training which gave me knowledge, skills and confidence far quicker than our current residents get. and some of the current generation would benefit from a taste of ti!
I think about now about ST6/7 you finally have enough knowledge and skill to not fill that pit of dread on your on call - but lot of stress to get there. You can not hold a residents hand 24/7 - you have to make decisions on your own, have the balls to take that decision and understand your training has got you to a point where you should get it right. That confidence point came earlier in the past.

Sometimes you won't get it right and learning from your mistakes is the essence of medicine, because you will strive to not do that again There is not a doctor on the planet who has not made a mistake, it is the scale of the mistake that is the key.. A lesson far more valuable than having your hand held every time and you failing to learn how to balance risk.

I repsect our current generation of resident doctors but I do not think there is a lot of respect for that older experience on these threads which is sad.

ShellacofChopin · 18/08/2025 20:55

Sevillian · 16/08/2025 13:14

The F2 DC I mentioned went to Oxford. That will account for the difference mumsneedwine.

The older DC is also Oxbridge (indeed about to return to start a funded PhD in their specialty, taking a few years out from training, having been invited to join a lab without seeking it out. I can only assume this is a merit based invitation; it’s not an invitation from an academic they previously knew. Exciting though and good to change it up a bit from time to time).

Edited

How did they find the transition from a Classics degree to F1?

mumsneedwine · 18/08/2025 21:03

@stuffedpeppers sorry, where did anyone say any of that ? I've never heard anyone mention of anyone having it easy.

PurpleFairyLights · 18/08/2025 21:04

mumsneedwine · 18/08/2025 20:51

@PurpleFairyLights there were no doctors at the conference who believed that any Medical School was not up to standard. They found the idea quite insulting (especially as one v eminent prof had helped set 2 of them up).

That is what I thought.

mumsneedwine · 18/08/2025 21:08

@stuffedpeppers there have been consultants on here saying F1s are useless and PAs are better, that if they went on strike that consultant would refuse to sign them off and that massive unemployment is not real, it's just for the rubbish ones. Those doctors are not helping.

Sevillian · 18/08/2025 21:09

mumsneedwine · 18/08/2025 20:51

@PurpleFairyLights there were no doctors at the conference who believed that any Medical School was not up to standard. They found the idea quite insulting (especially as one v eminent prof had helped set 2 of them up).

This was not discussed in Glasgow mumsneedwine and has you been there you would know that. I haven’t commented, but anyone who is familiar with these things would know that anyone not endorsed by their school to attend widening participation conferences (especially a school with a high tally of FSM pupils) would be regarded as very, very, very unusual indeed.

PurpleFairyLights · 18/08/2025 21:10

stuffedpeppers · 18/08/2025 20:53

I think what many of us actual doctors struggle with on some of these threads is the rudeness to those who have been junior doctors, worked 80- 100+ hours per week every week, studied for exams, wrote papers, did higher degrees, faced unemployment on a 6 monthly basis, watched a new way of training post grad doctors be implemented and those already on the treadmill got dumped for run through training, had debt, competed with IMGs for jobs, left the country as no jobs, come back, gone sideways then gone up. But apparently we had it easy!

Apparently we do not understand, are arrogant ignorant and unsupportive of current residents. They have different challenges and not some of the challenges of the past - things have improved and different challenges have come up.
To denigrate those who went before and pushed for reductions in hours, better training and supervision etc etc, to me shows a lack of understanding on what it takes to get to the end either as a GP or consultant or researcher etc

i would not wish much of my training in the format it was on the current generation, it was brutal, but there are parts of my training which gave me knowledge, skills and confidence far quicker than our current residents get. and some of the current generation would benefit from a taste of ti!
I think about now about ST6/7 you finally have enough knowledge and skill to not fill that pit of dread on your on call - but lot of stress to get there. You can not hold a residents hand 24/7 - you have to make decisions on your own, have the balls to take that decision and understand your training has got you to a point where you should get it right. That confidence point came earlier in the past.

Sometimes you won't get it right and learning from your mistakes is the essence of medicine, because you will strive to not do that again There is not a doctor on the planet who has not made a mistake, it is the scale of the mistake that is the key.. A lesson far more valuable than having your hand held every time and you failing to learn how to balance risk.

I repsect our current generation of resident doctors but I do not think there is a lot of respect for that older experience on these threads which is sad.

Pretty strange post assuming that other posters are not doctors.

Please can you let me know which poster called you a "liar". Pretty off for you to assert that someone called you a liar when there appears to be no such post. Happy to be proved wrong.

stuffedpeppers · 18/08/2025 21:13

Plenty of people on here have said they are not doctors and some of them say some fairly offensive derogatory comments.

Sevillian · 18/08/2025 21:14

ShellacofChopin · 18/08/2025 20:55

How did they find the transition from a Classics degree to F1?

Show quote history

The DC in question didn’t read Classics. She didn’t do graduate medicine. She was an undergraduate at Oxford and did her clinical years there too. You must be confused about something. That said, Classics is a fabulous degree for polymaths, especially those with real linguistic ability. I would assume a good Classicist could translate quite easily to a career in medicine if the fancy took them.

mumsneedwine · 18/08/2025 21:15

@Sevillian it was. Both at the conference and over dinner on Sat night (my sharing of this thread involved me handing my phone around, to howls of laughter)

PurpleFairyLights · 18/08/2025 21:16

stuffedpeppers · 18/08/2025 21:13

Plenty of people on here have said they are not doctors and some of them say some fairly offensive derogatory comments.

Others have not disclosed their profession so a bit silly to assume they are not doctors.

Who called you a "liar"?

mumsneedwine · 18/08/2025 21:16

Oh and attended on behalf of another organisation involved in WP. Again, we can have more than one job. Quite common.

PurpleFairyLights · 18/08/2025 21:18

mumsneedwine · 18/08/2025 21:16

Oh and attended on behalf of another organisation involved in WP. Again, we can have more than one job. Quite common.

How is @sevillian posting about the conference when they were not there....

mumsneedwine · 18/08/2025 21:19

@stuffedpeppers I can't remember anyone saying anything derogatory about doctors. Disagreeing about denigrating current doctors ? Yes. But not sure I've seen anyone saying the older generation had it easier. Different shit. But still shit. Why can't we all fight to make things better ? Not 'because I had it tough so must you' ?

Sevillian · 18/08/2025 21:20

People are always saying their DC didn’t want to go to Oxbridge so didn’t apply and generally say that the DC in question got 4A*, which is completely beside the point. I love the complacent assumptions though. The admissions process asks for far more than that. And beyond that, the DC didn’t apply so they didn’t benefit from that particular education. The two medical schools are rated top of the pops for a reason.

mumsneedwine · 18/08/2025 21:20

@PurpleFairyLights🤷‍♀️ if they were they were v v quiet. Not sure why these opinions were not mentioned and they didn't speak up about how we shouldn't be allowing students to apply to these useless Unis.

Sevillian · 18/08/2025 21:20

PurpleFairyLights · 18/08/2025 21:18

How is @sevillian posting about the conference when they were not there....

Show quote history

I’m sorry?

PurpleFairyLights please stop the weirdy comments.

mumsneedwine · 18/08/2025 21:21

Ah the Oxbridge snobbery is alive and well. No one in the real world cares. Just the public school clientele.