To think I've f*cked things up for my daughter even more

[smokingpoppy]

ND yr 7 daughter has a few nice but slightly rebellious friends. She struggles with school anyway, on a reduced time table due to overwhelm etc.
In her absence an older 'wrong'un' from the year above has infiltrated the friend group, giving out vapes and generally being a bad influence/ pushing boundaries even more.
My daughter has no filter and made her feelings known to the other girls. They told the wrong'un who has now turned on my daughter and is threatening her. Long threatening voice notes etc. She's got a history of fighting, suspended for it etc.
The wrong'un is demanding my daughter makes a big public apology to the whole friendship group for 'talking shit about her'. (She hasn't been talking shite she was just honest that she felt uncomfortable about stuff to her friends)
I mistakenly told one of the friend's parents who went straight to the wrong'un mum and told her. So now the threats have gone up a gear.
I have definitely made it worse. I shouldn't have trusted the other mum. I now have exactly 100% chance of getting my daughter in to school ever again.
WWYD? Tell the school? What can they do at the end of term?

Maybe find some other friends. Or just meet up with the pleasant ones in this group, one or 2 at a time, or someone completely different, during school holidays.
For ND its best to keep far away from anyone like this, you can't reason with cece, so don't waste any effort on it,don't force an apology or respond in any way, bully will hopefully lose interest and sadly find someone else to bully soon. This group may well disintegrate next school year.
Cece is desperate for a response and I think is quite distressed herself, texting 84 times.

Escalate this up the school food chain until you're happy with the response.

I don't think your DD was unreasonable to tell her friendship group that she wasn't comfortable with Cece and her antics. Cece is now likely lashing out because she's already lost her own peer group, and is on the way to losing a second. Hanging out with a younger crowd isn't cool at any point during secondary school, so it's likely she's feeling quite rattled and sensitive.
As for the vaping etc, it sounds like she's got a fair few problems of her own... I'd be asking the school to be making a special effort to see she receives support. But of course, the school won't tell you anything about her to your face. She's not your child.

But yes, continue to push for support from school for your own DD, who it sounds like has pretty significant struggles of her own. A reduced timetable for a secondary aged child isn't something that's offered lightly. What therapies etc is your DD having to support her?

The 6-week break will probably be good for everyone. Encourage your DD to focus on herself and one or two particularly close friends. Especially if the group are, as you say, "slightly rebellious."

First of all, some kids are wronguns, it’s not like you called her a cunt people are just being picky. I’m sure this girl has other issues going on that are making her act like this, but that’s not an excuse. Your DD shouldn’t have talked about her behind her back, but they’re teenage girls, so it’s not exactly a capital offence.

You need to tell the school about the threats, if this girl has actually battered other kids in the past I would be particularly wary. Document and save everything and log it. I wouldn’t bother with the police personally, because they’re shit a lot of the time with things like this, but you never know. Tell your DD if she does attack her to defend herself, and reassure her that you will back her up.

I'd be reporting every single threat to the school so that they know what's going on.

Nothing wrong with calling g her a wrong un. You aren't her psychotherapist, you aren't required to understand what factors have led to this awful behaviour. You just need to try and protect your own child from her.

There is a lot of victim blaming going on & a lot of posters that don’t seem to have experience of teenage girls.

1 You should definitely email the school about this today. Copy in her class teacher, head of year 7, head of year 8, safe guarding lead, pastoral lead and any other person that sound appropriate. They won’t necessarily be able to tackle it over the holidays but maybe get a plan in place for September.

2 Back up any voice messages & screenshot any text exchanges. Then block Cece on DD’s phone.

3 Put some effort into helping DD with her friends over the holidays (not saying you don’t already). Obviously they are too old for you to arrange ’playdates’ but she could invite them round for a movie night with pizza, or she could invite a friend on a day out to a theme park or cinema. I would avoid her ‘hanging out’ at the park or shops with them in case Cece turned up. Encourage her to invite her friends to hang out at your place instead & stock up the snack cupboard.

Finally, you didn’t do the wrong thing speaking to the other mum. I would have done the same. Most parents of 12y olds would want to know if their kids were being given vapes by an older child.

I wouldn’t go to the police yet, as they are unlikely to do anything at this point. I would put in the email to the school as a question, something like ‘do they think you should report it to the police now?’, so they realise it is an option you are prepared to take.

Best of luck.

Absolutely. I have no idea what most PPs are even thinking. Feeling sorry for Cece? No thanks….

I disagree. Peer groups are so important to get right at this age and the child who joined sounds awful. Her parents are clearly facilitating her behaviour if they’ve been told and the reaction was more abuse to your child. I would encourage your child to see if any of the friends individually also feel uneasy of this new child and seek to then form their own group away from this child. On no accounts would I suggest apologising to her or being friends with her. She needs to not associate with this child. Peer groups become such a huge influence on kids this age. You want her to find good decent friends. Not like this child.

I think most schools would be taking it very seriously if an older child was supplying children as yoing as 11 with vapes, especially when the older child has already been in trouble. You should tell the school so they can take action.

@SummerCanDoOne
When scienctists discovered how the teenage brain works and the impact of adverse childhood experiences on that brain development?
I work with teenagers and some are bloody challenging but there's almost never not a reason for it.

Well our experiences differ. Are you seriously saying that teenagers are not in control of their actions because that’s ridiculous! The OP has not said that the bully has had any adverse childhood experiences! You’re making excuses for them without knowing the facts. I’ve also worked with teenagers and most who were challenging did not have any reasons other than people like you making excuses for them resulting in them not taking the responsibility for their actions. That didn’t lead to good outcomes for them as adults. Whilst the ACE and trauma informed practices may be relevant for some, it certainly isn’t for the vast majority. If anything it’s had an overall negative long term effect on a lot of kids who have grown up into adults who think they will never be held accountable for their actions!

Agree with this.

OP, you did break your daughter’s trust and you’ll have to work hard over a long period of time to earn it back. I think you need to acknowledge what you did and apologise to her, explain why you did it (you were worried about her, hoped to make things better) but in hindsight it was a silly thing to do and you broke her trust.

You need to speak to the school about this, especially the threatening voice notes. But talk to your daughter first, explain why you need to do it and that it might be difficult to hear, but it is important that she feels as safe and secure as she can be. You need to be informing her of what will happen in a calm and sensible way. You, her and the school need to come up with a plan of action.

ETA after having read some of the other comments, I wanted to add that I fully support your daughter in taking a stand against this in the way that she has. The mum of the other child (as someone else has said) is clearly facilitating her behaviour and that’s raises concern about general morals/accountability. I wouldn’t want my child anywhere near them - but I appreciate that it’s far less simple than that.

👏 best bit of advice on here.

All of this, “your daughter shouldn’t have been talking about her behind her back” - what are you, teenagers??

Update. Cece continues to demand public apology and has issued ultimatum because she not leaving friend group but doesn’t want DD in it anymore. So other girls need to choose. Could go either way, one girl is an old family friend since before she went off the rails. And seems tempted by the excitement/ cool points of hanging round with Cece who has a big reputation (but no real friends) and keeping her on side. Other girl more neutral/ out of the loop

friend’s mum was trying to help by telling Cece’s mum, bit clueless but well intentioned. (They are old friends remember) but she doesn’t want her DD hanging round with her either and has made that clear to child.

apparently social services are involved already cos Cece has been caught shoplifting and has a messy home life with borderline neglect. I feel for Cece but obviously this is very clouded by worry re my DD who is extra naive and socially immature due to ASD.

Thanks for all the advice, some better than others. I think the plan is to apologise to cece (for what? My DD’s exact words were ‘I don’t want to hang out with cece tomorrow because she’s bringing in that thing (a vape) do we have to?) But whatever, if it defuses the situation over summer hopefully she’ll move on to friends her own age and that’s the best we can hope for.

will log it all and keep records. The threats were vague ‘you better watch out’ ‘you should be scared’ etc. So maybe I panicked to soon because of her history of violence. Can school do anything about vague threats?

Yes, school will record vague threats. Are you really suggesting your DD apologise to this individual when she doesn’t want to? And put up with the vaping when she doesn’t want to? Your DD seems to have good boundaries, I would support her in those

she has sent threats by text, and you still have them? go to the police

School should have been your first port of call - meeting with head of your daughter's year and head of year for Cece. You can still do that now. Also police for threats. Bullies usually back off when you show you won't just put up with it. At my sons' school they would take all of this very seriously and would deal with it swiftly. Much easier for them to nip it in the bud at the earliest stage possible. Please write to the school or call and talk to the head of year first thing on Monday.

Yes I agree. It is usually what stops them.

I'm sorry to kick you when you're down : but I can kind of see why you're poor daughter is timid and passive. You're considering getting your DD who is now the victim here to apologise . You also backed down with the "wrong un " thing just because someone gave their opinion on you using the word. I would have used something far harsher than 'wrong un' and I'd have stuck to my guns (and I'm not the world's most assertive person ) but when it comes to my children forget assertive, I'd be aggressive if I had to.

You're being so passive and wishy washy. Your DD is likely picking up on how you deal with people and situations.

I know this is incredibly difficult for you and your daughter and I do sympathise wholly. But you do need to find your inner tiger (as does she ) . The only way bullies learn is if you give them a right hook or you use brass and bullshit to give a good show that you're not being messed about with anymore. "Brazen it out " . Your daughter starts sniffing round her grovelling will not solve a thing.

Great post.

Not being rude but you couldn’t be further from the truth, my DD has zero filter. She’s the least timid person I know. Naive yes. But not timid.

In fact she’s a massive inspiration to me because she speaks her mind, bluntly and with no sugarcoating, all the time. It’s one of her ASD traits. But she is never mean, she’s simply not interested in drama. She doesn’t hold grudges and is incredibly pragmatic. She just moves through life saying what she wants to say in a practical, no nonsense fashion as if it’s the most logical thing in the world.

Everyone who knows her would say she knows her own mind and makes it very clear. No one has ever mentioned the word timid.

This is all her idea. I couldn’t MAKE her play it differently if I tried. She has decided she wants to shut down the drama and move on. An apology is what she thinks will do this. So that’s what she will do.

As for me, you are also misreading. I am mainly nice and warm and accommodating BUT can be hot headed if pushed and have dropped many ‘friends’ in my life who have forced a confrontation/ taken the piss. I definitely do not suck anything up. In fact, i am working on being more tolerant and less black and white about things.

Go speak to the child's mother & the child if there are threats , I would not tolerate that at all firstly .. the vapes thing is pretty usual for teens , mine don't & it's really strict at their school, mine go to private school so not many "wrong uns" not that I agree with calling an 11 year old a "wrong un" .. your daughter was trying to exclude the girl for the right reasons but it was unkind as I said I think this could be sorted with a chat with both girls & her mum .. let her know about the vapes & other behaviour that concerns you but be understanding & kind .

Update: I am going to tell the school.

It seems as though your DD's friendship group have decided to welcome this girl into the group in your DD's absence.

This has pushed your DD's nose out of joint (understandably).

She's the only one (or so it seems) who is not accepting of this girl joining the group (for fairly valid reasons it would seem), but there's nothing she can do about it.

If her friends are forced to choose between your DD who won't accept the new addition, or the new addition who will accept your DD, it's not going to end well for anyone really.

I still think there's a certain amount of naivety around the 'pushing' of the vapes.

They're at an age where unfortunately, they're often curious enough to try these things.

It doesn't always mean they're 'pushed' into it.

Ok fair enough. You obviously know yourself and your DD best.

If she thinks that is the best course of action then I hope it helps. Fingers crossed 🤞 it's not a nice situation to be dealing with for either of you. I get that.

Oh jeez... Tell me you don't know what the real world is like out there without telling me ? Good grief. #bekind doesn't work for wrong uns you know? And she is a wrong un. Worse probably. Bloody "kindness". It'd be lovely if we all lived in your little world. But most of us don't. Nice humble brag about the private school and it's lack of commoners by the way 👌