To think I've f*cked things up for my daughter even more

[smokingpoppy]

ND yr 7 daughter has a few nice but slightly rebellious friends. She struggles with school anyway, on a reduced time table due to overwhelm etc.
In her absence an older 'wrong'un' from the year above has infiltrated the friend group, giving out vapes and generally being a bad influence/ pushing boundaries even more.
My daughter has no filter and made her feelings known to the other girls. They told the wrong'un who has now turned on my daughter and is threatening her. Long threatening voice notes etc. She's got a history of fighting, suspended for it etc.
The wrong'un is demanding my daughter makes a big public apology to the whole friendship group for 'talking shit about her'. (She hasn't been talking shite she was just honest that she felt uncomfortable about stuff to her friends)
I mistakenly told one of the friend's parents who went straight to the wrong'un mum and told her. So now the threats have gone up a gear.
I have definitely made it worse. I shouldn't have trusted the other mum. I now have exactly 100% chance of getting my daughter in to school ever again.
WWYD? Tell the school? What can they do at the end of term?

Yep, it's pretty obvious that some parents here have a LOT of sympathy for bullies, they are either bullies themselves or have children who are bullies.

And the disgusting phrase "not running her mouth" is far worse than wrong un, coming from an adult about a bullied and frightened teen.

I guess she asked. And was given. One of the friend group is an old family friend.

@thelakeisle
It certainly looks that way! No wonder some kids are completely out of control these days! I’d have been mortified if my kids had bullied anyone. Absolutely no way would I have been defending them. Totally batshit!

See I don't know if your DD should trust her friendship group at all really.

It sounds as though they've made friends with her (she didn't 'infiltrate'), gave her their phone numbers and accepted vapes.

Then not only did they tell her what your DD said about them, but one of their mums told this girl's mum what you'd said too.

They may or may not be scared of her, I don't know.

But something about their 'loyalty' to your DD seems off.

Her daughter should apologise for calling out poor behaviour? Why? Because a bully has demanded an open apology?

OP needs to report them to school and st least threaten to report the increasing harassment to the police. Not apologise for having principles.

And she sounds a wrong un. As does her parent, who should be mortified her child is leaving others threatening messages.

I'd go to the police regardless, schools unfortunately have a long history of brushing stuff under the carpet. Once they know a police report has been made they are much more likely to take it seriously.

OP’s DD has said that she’s scared of this girl and doesn’t want to hang around with her, and the girl knows that, so I don’t think a grovelly reply trying to smooth things over is appropriate.

OP, I think the first move should be for your DD to block this girl’s number and remove herself from any group chats involving her. Does she have other friends who are not part of this group? If so, I’d be steering her towards them! It seems as if the friends will remain loyal to the other girl, whether through fear or other reasons, and your daughter is best off out of the situation.

I get the impression some posters on here have either
a) never been bullied
b) forgotten what it’s like to be a teenager
c) don’t have teenage daughters

Don’t let your daughter go grovelling op, she’ll always be known as a target. Also best to stay out of teenage arguments as a parent, but definitely let school know, they can sort it whilst not making your dd look like a snitch!

best thing you can do is guide your dd around this as a responsible parent, make sure she knows some people are arseholes and that continues into adulthood, You really can’t mollycoddle them or it just sets them up for failure/disappointment when they grow up themselves. Obviously in a way you know she will understand.

And some teens are shits, and that mostly stems from an unstable home life, trauma, abuse. She’s going to need to know this stuff to navigate secondary school because it is brutal, and being ND is secondary is even harder.

She's been threatened. That's not just being an arsehole, that's illegal and should be dealt with appropriately by the authorities, both the police and the school.

Don't be a snitch rules are out of the window when someone is a genuine threat.

I feel for you. This is horrible for you and your DD.

What I will say is : this wrong un won't change because your daughter has pointed out the injustice of her behaviour. It'll fuel the fire.

Unfortunately we don't live in a nice, fluffy world. There's some wonderful humans about, but there's also a good sprinkling of trouble makers and not so nice /well behaved people around. I think we have to try to teach our kids to navigate those people and circumstances instead of trying to stop those people behaving the way they do. It's kind of preventing your child being on the receiving end.

I have a friend who's child has ASD and they have a strong sense of injustice. She's mollycoddled him quite a bit and unfortunately he's been very much encouraged to "tell the teacher" about any thing he doesn't like. So the poor boy (11yrs old) is now quite the "tell tale/snitch " and "teacher's pet" which of course rubs his peers very much up the wrong way and ends up making him a target. I cringe , because I think, in adulthood there is no "teacher to tell" who's going to intervene and tell everyone to use "kind words". That's where you've got to learn (and it's hard ) the skills to navigate difficult people

What I've taught mine is to rub along with the "roughers" as well call them (yeh yeh , I know) because it's less likely to make you a target. Don't have to be best mates, don't get too close, but rub along with them.

Your DD probably should have picked her battles. (It's tough and I feel for her ) I get why you confided in another parent, it's allyship and being vulnerable and alone with the burden of it. But you have to be a bit guarded with people you don't know too well. You don't know if you can trust them, and you made an error of judgement.

I'm afraid I don't have any sound advice really on what to do next , but I would try not to respond too much to messages: let it die down. It'll hopefully run out of steam. It needs reporting to school in this instance though, as it's already gone too far. I'm sorry you're going through this.

She's been threatened.

It is well past the stage of trying to ignore it and there is no reason to assume her daughter has been taught to snitch or run to the teacher every time. She told her friends.

Aggressive bullies look for targets, and she has been targeted.

She has been threatened. So now that reality must be dealt with and it must be escalated to the police and as high up the school as it will go. The bully has very likely NEVER been hit back. Time to hit her back hard with legal repercussions for her aggressive behaviour. The OP has to stand up for her kid, or nobody else will.

The police will do bugger all and refer back to school to deal with until OPs DD is actually physically harmed. And with that the poor child will have her life made infinitely harder further hurting her education.

juat fyi, threatening violence is a summery only offence with a 6 month time limit to investigate and charge/caution, the state of our justice system and police resources means this is a total non starter. Notwithstanding the fact the police don’t like criminalising children until things have escalated extremely seriously. There’s no way the police are going near this, sad as it is.

Not the point at all. A police report will force the school to shift their arses and OP must be prepared to do this every single time a threat is made and absolutely force the school to act. Drag everyone in to this and never let it go till they deal with it. I'd move her from the school too tbh.

Doing nothing will mean the poor kid has already had her life made a misery and will continue to do so. She has been threatened and her friends turned against her.

The only thing that could be worse at this point is when the aggressive bully carries out her threats.

Oh I agree entirely. But what I'm getting as is future prevention. I'm aware that may not be overly helpful as the horse has bolted. As you say, it's gone way too far and it will now need school and likely police.

Yes, talking to her daughter about the reality of life and how to navigate this stuff is important, you are right the world is full of difficult people and "the right thing" is often optional, depending if we can actually enforce it. Sorry for misunderstanding.

Oh no problem. I did focus heavily on the prevention bit and really the op needs sound advice on what to do next (which you've given ) so I get why I confused you !

I’m 42 and I’m scared of Cece!!

I do agree with you that she should probably move school, while difficult, is the lesser of the two evils at this point.

My point regarding police involvement is that they won’t do anything, and it’s likely to escalate things, the kids mother is likely not one to have regard for the police, so there’s another element of potential escalation.
We’re living in a pretty lawless society at the minute, a year for a police investigation, then another 6 months for a cps decision, and then a 3 year wait for a trial at Crown court, unless it’s a “minor” offence that times out because the police we do have don’t have time to manage their workloads. Those who know this take advantage of being a criminal.

Not offensive to you perhaps, but I imagine they were quite upsetting to the young girl who (for whatever reason) has few/no friends. She's obviously got some behavioral issues, and she's read messages from your daughter effectively trying to ostracize her from the group because your daughter doesn't like her. How would you expect her to react?

I'm the last person to humour a bully, but your daughter has also acted in a way that even the most well-adjusted kids of that age would find confrontational, let alone one with a rep for getting into confrontations themselves.

Unless you have a legitimate fear that your daughter is in danger, let the kids sort it out themselves. Getting the school involved will likely have the same effect that gossiping to parents did.

If you're going to talk to anyone, talk to the bully's parents. At best you might make some kind of peace, at worst you might get an understanding of why the kid is like she is.

This.

Threats of violence need to be stopped. Always report such things to the school. They can't help if they don't know it's happening. If the school don't take action, report to the police. Provide them with the voice notes.

Then stop gossiping. Avoid this particular set of mums who seem every bit as spiteful & immature as their dds.

Kids have been falling out and fighting in school since schools existed. Unless there's a credible threat of serious violence, involving the police is a massive overreaction and will create more drama than it solves.

I know times have changed, but surely the better lesson for a kid's development when a bully threatens them is to have some backbone and stand up for yourself, rather than Mummy and Daddy calling the police over some hurty words?

I don’t want to derail the thread, but I wanted to ask @SquishedMallow whether their children had ASD, and if not, to not judge her friend’s parenting too harshly.

When my autistic DS moved to secondary school I realised how impossible for him it was to “just rub along with the roughers”, because for some kids sensing any difference is like smelling blood, and he became a target for simply existing while being autistic (and having red hair and being extremely bright). I only resorted to insisting he told staff about every incident when his safety became a genuine concern. Thankfully he’s at a different school now and doing much better, but some kids will never be able to keep their heads down and fly under the radar of bullies.

Talking shit means lying, making things up and as far as I can see the dd didn’t lie

When has talking to the bullies patents ever got anywhere

Either go to the school or go to the police

It's come at the best time really for you to move DD to a better school with the minimum of disruption. Her peers are evidently going down the same path as Cece and their parents seem to be OK with that. Even without the bullying, I would be looking to remove her from an environment where 12 year olds are vaping and hanging out with drug users. No wonder she's struggling.