AIBU to agree with Diane Abbott

[Elephantiner]

I cannot stand Diane Abbott, she has a lazy, patronising manner which riles me, but she has said that people visiblybof a different race (e.g. black people) experience a different sort of racism than those who’s race is not visually obvious (travellers, Jewish people etc). She has a point, doesn’t she? Am I missing something here?

Obviously all types of racism are utterly abhorrent.

I think you have misunderstood. It was the idea that other communities arent subject to those things too, and the idea that the racism that is experienced by other groups who may not have black skin it is not equally harmful. Stats are just one way of looking at ways of identifying how racism is experienced across different groups.

Ok, thanks to both people who explained.

By declaring that the Black community is “the most targeted and disenfranchised,” it establishes a ranking, positioning Black suffering as the primary standard for what counts as real racism. While it goes on to acknowledge that racism toward Jews, Muslims, and Asians exists, it positions it as secondary and not as bad - just as Diane has done.

So I'm not here trying to prove a hierarchy of racism. I'm here arguing against one.

Your post is literally "Black people have it worse". I corrected your statement on who is most targeted, as its just not true.

Fighting racism isn't a zero sum game.

You raised twitter in defence of your argument. I didn’t. I was just pointing out that twitter does not speak for everyone
I said racism is a word bandied about when people have no argument or it appears the ability for logical thought……

The original one from 2023, or the recent amnesia version?

You’ve said it. She is lazy. No one has struggled harder than her. The way she words things shows she is an out and out racist, and people always caved braise they were frightened of being vilified by the nasty bully.

Her time has come, just like her drugged up “do u know who I am” son!

Really? In what way? I find your response very patronising and condescending. :( Who do you think you are to question my experience and that of many others in my class?

She was the education secretary at the time! And if she had explained it, I would have had more respect. I.E. the provision in my area for people like my son is not where I want it to be as education secretary and I will work tirelessly to get it there, but in the meantime, I am also a mother who must do the best by my child.

Or

My sons individual needs could not be adequately met at the state schools in my area. I will work towards this for everyone, but in the meantime I cannot in good conscience put him in a situation which will be wrong for him.

I would have had so much more support for her. But in her arrogance, she just refused to discuss it. THAT was the problem for me.

BTW - about 25 years ago I read a really interesting paper by a black academic in the US who said she was concerned about the 'victocracy' she saw emerging - the position of black experiences as the biggest victims and the way this downplayed other experiences.

This positioning does not help, in fact I think it means people discount some of the things she says which deserve serious thought.

I also have a cousin who worships DA. And who informed me that it is not possible for black people to be racist. If she is indicative of DAs beliefs, no wonder she gets a lot of shit.

Is some of it racism and misogyny. Absolutely, probably the majority. But it does not help that she says such stupid things. Either she is really bad at expressing difficult concepts. In which case you would wonder how she got through Cambridge. Or she really believes in a hierarchy of suffering. Which is disgusting.

Tony Blair's children didn't go to a private school: they went to a state Catholic school. DA criticised this, then sent her son to a private school, and tried to pull the race card. Her behaviour was incredibly hypocritical.

and tried to pull the race card. Her behaviour was incredibly hypocriitical.

In an area which is incredibly racially diverse!

That's the original one for 2023

The impossibility of black people being racist, stems from the power structure, which is now defunct. It is an ignorant and arrogant belief. Racism is prejudice and discrimination, based on one's race, without exception.

This. And she should be allowed to say so.

As should Jewish people. Except when they say so, they get an inquisition about it.

I take it neithrr of you read the letter because that is not all she said.

Diane Abbott can’t sum up the experience for a group she is not part of. That’s up to the people who experience what they do.

No she can't but she shouldn't dismiss what they face racism which her stance is to do.

Incidentally I felt she was trying to patronise the original author of the article, who was simply pointing out racism is complex.

For example the author of the article would have received racism over their name, which Ms Abbott would never receive. Yet they are both black.

She didn't say that and that's the issue.

Everyone who states what they think she originally said, is actually clearer then she is.

I disagree with your analysis and I think Diane Abbott is correct (This being I think the one point of her politics I agree with)

As someone upthread said, she as an individual received half of all hate. Jeremy Corbyn, a white man who shares her politics shows that this is about her skin colour and her sex.

Yes, as potentially would someone with a Jewish name. 'Visibility' works differently in different situations.

Why mention Jewish people? If you think she is correct why bring another group into it, especially when it’s their experience not hers

That's not relevant to the comparison she was maki g with redheafs, Travellers, Irish people or Jewish people.

Corbyn gets plenty of hate. Abbott shouldn't be so controversial, as she has been many times. You don't get a free pass because of your sex and/or race.

I worked for her. I didn’t find her so, personally. Not an easy boss, but certainly not deeply unpleasant!

Interestingly, as a white person, I experienced racism on several occasions during the job. If she ever witnessed it, she gave the culprit merry hell.