To think my neighbour is being a CF? Garden fence related.

[MavisTheMonkey]

Our neighbours to the right are the last house in the road on a corner so we are their only neighbours. They have a wall between them and the pavement of the road around the corner and we have a fence in between our gardens.
For 11 years of the 12 years we have been here a couple lived there who had been there for 40+ years. They told us that they were responsible for both the wall to the road (on the right hand side of their garden) and the fence between us (to the left hand side of their house. They always maintained the fence and replaced a number of fence panels over the years. They moved out around a year ago and a new couple moved in.

Yesterday I bumped into the new neighbour and he said “oh I’ve been meaning to talk to you about the fence. I called land registry and they think it is shared. I’ve arranged for someone to come round on Thursday so can you keep your dog inside”

When he caught me I was super stressed and in the middle of something so he said he would catch me later and I didn’t ask questions or make any comments. Later that evening I checked to see if I have a copy of my title deeds as I know these sometimes show who is responsible for each boundary but I can’t find my copies and the originals are with the mortgage company. I also looked on land registry and can’t see how they would have been able to tell him it is a shared responsibility for that boundary.

He has just knocked on my front door and said that people coming tomorrow are replacing the entire fence. Then he showed me pictures of what the new fence will look like and a quote for £2300.

At this point I said “are you thinking I should pay for some of this?” And he said “Well what do you think the split should be?”

I pointed out that I don’t believe it is a shared fence and if it is it should be a shared decision on any work, not something he presents to me the evening before the work starts. I told him to go and see if he had a copy of the title deeds and then we will take it from there but again said if he believes it is a shared boundary it was not up to him to make the decision to replace the fence.

I am now thinking even if he can prove it is a shared responsibility for the fence I’m not going to pay any of the costs as he should have discussed it with me beforehand. AIBU to take this stand or if it is proven to be a shared responsibility then should I contribute towards the cost? I have the money but that’s not the issue in my mind, however I don’t want a bad relationship with our neighbours.

I think you’re right really if it’s shared it needs to be a shared decision. Does it need replacing in your opinion?

More conversation is needed before any quotes and cost share. Does the fence need replacing. It would be neighbourly to share if it’s split. It is a heck of an price though and I couldn’t afford it

This. Even if it is shared they don't get to replace the fence and bill you.

It would be unusual if the fence was a shared responsibility. It's more likely it's either yours or theirs.

If it's theirs, any decision about replacing and paying for it is theirs alone. If it's yours, it's up to you to decide if it needs replacing.

If it's yours and he wants to replace it anyway, he needs to get your permission to replace it and he needs to pay for it.

You can get a copy for less than a fiver. Tell him when you see theirs and yours you can have a discussion but not until then.
And bloody mean it.

Does the existing fence need replacing if not just tell him he does it at entirely his own cost and it needs to be exactly what is currently in situ ( if that suits you) .

We are in Scotland, so don't know if this is different, but our deeds show a T on the boundaries we are responsible for. Turns out all of ours are 50%.

We are getting new coping stones on the wall to one side of our garden, and our neighbors have firstly had a conversation about whether we agree this work needs done, then get quotes, then have another conversation to review trades. The fact that this is a done deal and you are just treated like an ATM would get my back up OP.

Yes, they are a cf. Firstly if it's shared it should be a discussion between the two of you before any decisions made. Also do all the panels need replacing, or does he just want a new fence

Thanks all. Yes the fence does need replacing and if I knew I was responsible for it then I would have replaced it a couple of years ago, so my initial reaction was I would pay half but I’m so annoyed with how he has gone about it so that definitely clouding my judgement.

Well even if you decide to share the cost I’d be getting in a few more companies for quotes and wanting to select who does the work - I’m particularly fussy about who I employ .

I appreciate they should have asked and it’s a lot of money you weren’t planning spending but if it needs doing and they’re willing to sort it and pay half, and it is a shared boundary, I’d just crack on.

my neighbours were far less willing and it was their fence. You can’t make anyone do anything, the boundary could just be a bit of string. (As I found out)

Also, if you are being expected to pay for half the fence, then would it not have been courteous to have been offered a say in the choice of design? And perhaps with the contractor selection. We’re several quotes obtained? And in this cf’s plan, who gets the ‘nice’ side of it?

I’m not sure title deeds always show who is responsible for fence maintenance. I have a bit of a tricky neighbour and have agreed to go halves with him on replacing the fence between us even though I’m also maintaining my other fence too.

it desperately needs replacing and I just want it done. However we have both got quotes and I’ve let him make the final decision as then he has some responsibility for it.

However we have discussed the process. It’s unreasonable to expect you to pay half you’ve had no say on the process and what the fence is going to look like etc.

I did get a copy of the title register from Land Registry yesterday and an a copy of the title plan. There is nothing in the title register and the title plan just shows the boundary.

As far as I can see if it’s marked anywhere it will be in the title deeds but these aren’t available online and involve sending a paper request and a checks to land registry. I haven’t got a cheque book so won’t be doing that.

I think he’s instigated this problem so the onus is on him to show I’m legally responsible to pay towards it.

Your response was entirely appropriate. Even if the fence is a shared responsibility he should have discussed it with you beforehand. If he's so unhappy that you didn't just cough up 50% of the cost for work you had no part in contracting that he decides to be unfriendly then that is definitely a him problem.

My fear is that there will be no definitive answer re who is responsible.

If he had come to me and had a reasonable chat I would have agreed to pay half the costs exactly as
you have done with your neighbour. I well may end up deciding to do that for the sake of maintaining a decent relationship but I am so pissed off at him presenting it to me as a done deal that I’m just expected to stump up for!!

Generally if it isn’t specified on the deeds then it tends to be shared, but lots of other factors can come into play, such as previous custom and practice.

If it is shared then you need to be in joint agreement about any works. I’d be minded to tell h8m to stop the work, and resolve the matter of ownership first before getting a couple of extra quotes and agreeing who gets the nice side.

We have no Ts on our title plan (which I am thinking is the outline of the property in red) but in the long worded document that is extra and has all the conditions listed like you must allow the water company on your land etc does state that all walls and fences that were built when our estate was new have to be maintained and replaced when necessary. Unusual for both things, one shared and secondly, have to be maintained. I am convinced we paid for this online using a debit/credit card as have lots of other people on MN.

How it works with us, we talk to the neighbours and agree what panels. As sometimes people want specific panels to match in with other ones they have in their garden. Our neighbour has his back garden surrounded by 3 sides of fence panels. We were happy for the replacement fence to match in with their garden, so concrete posts and boards and a particular design of panel. Their panels have no impact on us due to the layout of our property. They arrange for the work as they have pets and like to know when it is all happening. They present the invoice to us and we pay the fencing company half the invoice immediately.

I would at least want a discussion, don't be railroaded into this just because they have arranged it. What have they chosen design wise? Are you happy with that? Have they got a copy of their deeds showing who is responsible? Maybe theirs have Ts on their title plan.

@MavisTheMonkey land registry is done online. card payment and they email the plans and deeds to you.

Yes it’s really poor behaviour. For one thing he’s just assuming you have access to that kind of money. Our fence is costing about the same as yours. My neighbour fell out with the other neighbour, who paid the entire cost of replacing the fence between them, as she put the “nice side” on her side. She’d paid for it!

Some people, like my neighbour, can get extremely worked up by things like this. I am gritting my teeth until it’s done and then we won’t need to have much contact again (detached house). I think it probably is “his” fence but I’m taking the view that it just makes my life easier to agree to pay half. If I didn’t agree to pay half and started the process I don’t think he would have done so even though he agree it needs to be replaced. When it needs replacing again after this in 10/15 years time I don’t expect to be living here

I did the title register and title plan online via card payment but as I read it title deeds are different

I phoned someone or other (years ago so can't remember who - maybe the council? Maybe Land Registry) about a similar issue and the lady I spoke to said that in cases where it's unclear who owns the fence, "it is expected that neighbours mutually agree as to its upkeep/replacement."
That's all very well until you come across someone who is wholly unreasonable.
She also said that it's a commonly-held myth that a property owns the left-hand boundary but loads of people will tell you that this is true.

Fuck paying him a penny.

Shared or not, if he is changing the fences and wants payment, he should have consulted you earlier.

On him if he cancels installation, but in your shoes, I wouldnt pay a fucking penny.

Fuck him.

I would imagine this is actually what he has been told when he has called Land Registry. All fine but then he’s just steam rolled ahead without discussing with me!!

If he has unilaterally decided to book someone to replace the fence with no consultation, then he can unilaterally pay for it.

If he wanted a shared payment, then it should be a shared choice over the costs.