Trans hate (I don't) and the same old, same old

[RetiringRita]

Well I've been on a few threads this weekend and the one that's been hijacked yet again was the question of trans hate on mumsnet.
The OP asked for opinions on whether that was a fair statement yet within minutes the question was ignored and the same FWR posters were out in force. They didn't want to answer the question so targeted their posts to state their agenda.

Sex as defined by The Surpreme Court ruling
TW perverts in women's prisons
TW perverts in female loos
Men in dresses
FTM having ASD or mental illness.

It appears those of us who sit on the fence are not entitled to be there. Those who cannot be bullied get shouted down.

I have been called the following :

Hand Maiden
Trans Ally
Not part of the sisterhood
Delusional
Captured
Shameful
Mentally ill
A liar (frequently)
A man

None apply to me.

Am I being unreasonable to ask for some understanding and compassion for trans people who don't fit the stereotypes listed?

Yes Words are words. It’s not us that are trying to redefine them.

The rest of your post makes no sense to me.

*if you insist that trans people must be treated according to their birth sex in all aspects of public life where men and women are treated differently , then you are erasing the very thing that makes a trans person trans from public life.

I have no idea why

Excellent

Like any single sex provision, including toilets, changing rooms, medical care, prisons, refuges and any services specifically for female people, sports, and representation. Great.

So, we should be all ok with the discussions here shouldn't we?

So you mean an intersex person whose sex was incorrectly identified at birth and who was later found out to be female?

I'd hazard a guess that what Tandora means is that everyone else has to play along with the pretence 24/7 otherwise it all collapses.

This is why there has to be such a thing as male women. Why penises have to be a female sex organ if the owner has a woman identity. Why 'woman' must have a different definition from the biological one.

It's why no quarter can be given to prisons, sports, children, rape crisis services and all the other places the most egregious harms and land grabs have taken place.

Once you start pulling the Jenga blocks out it comes tumbling down.

It was doomed from the start because the movement refuses speak honestly.

He literally evaporates in a puff of smoke on the start line.

oh wait, he doesn't.

Of course you aren’t going to comment.

And what happens then? What does this 'erasure' look like?

Oh.. and female specific language. Like girls and women, mothers etc.

All good. There should be no disagreement.

I mean, I didn't think I had that power 😂

That doesn’t surprise me.

Nope. Not like any “single sex”
provision.
there may be some provision exclusively for cis women, like there is some provision exclusively for disabled women, .
Some: not all: all is erasure:

Nope. Just like gay people don’t literally disappear when they are criminalised. They are just erased from public life- silenced/ unseen/ forced to hide/ live in fear. And large sections of the population just don’t believe they even really exist: it’s just a (dangerous) “western ideology”; like how you see trans people.

Of course, herein lies the issue.

If a male person who has declared that they are female is to be legitimately excluded for any purpose, they are of course, not female at all. Their belief is not reflective of material reality and it is a philosophical belief.

In society, what other group's philosophical belief that is not reflective of material reality is expected to be treated as being material reality, particularly when it conflicts with the needs of female people?

How dare you question my sincerity.

So a trans woman is a male.

I understand now, you meant transwomen are men.

But I'm not criminalising him. We're not in a court of law. I'm not a judge.

That's totally different - and you know it.

I'm telling him to compete in the men's race. So what happens on this 'erasure'. How can we identify it?

What provision is solely for 'cis' women?

Cis is a meaningless term. You, personally, have shown us all that.

So, what 'single sex' provision should not exclude all male people above about 8 years old? Again, please be precise here.

@Locutus2000 We all had the right to single-sex spaces until 2015. If expecting that, equals "hatred for trans people", what does that say about their characters?

They're telling you that the only way to show you don't hate them is swallowing fear/anxiety/discomfort/dignity and telling yourself that other, louder, people matter, and you don't?

My XX rights matter, and no XY, however he "identifies" is entitled to trample over them.

I'd like to hear why you don't believe that too.

One where it can be demonstrated is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim. Some specific rape crisis services may be one.

So, a female single sex toilet can be demonstrated to need to exclude all male people above the age of 8 years old.

Because female people use toilet spaces including the shared basin spaces in female single sex spaces for personal needs that should exclude all male people.

I wouldn’t pay certain posters for any legal advice, put it that way.

indeed.

Exactly this.